Chisoxfn Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 I caught this on WSI and supposedly Chet Koppick mentioned this deal. Don't ask me who the hell Chet Koppick is White Sox Trade: - Magglio Ordonez - Jose Valentin - Prospect (Mentions Neil Cotts) White Sox Receive: - Randy Wolf (LHP) - Pat Burrel (OF) - Marlyn Byrd (CF) - Jimmy Rollins (SS) This move makes sense in the sense that the Phillies add instant offense and they can afford to give up Randy Wolf cause their rotation is very deep. They also give up a pretty bad contract in Burrel who is due only 4 mill this year, but signed a big time deal and the money will go up and up and I think at his max for one year he makes like 13 mill. Rollins just signed that deal for 2.5 mill. Byrd is signed for cheap, he's a very young, high upside centerfielder that posted very good numbers for the Phillies last year. Don't know the status on Wolf, but he's a very good left handed pitcher. To me this deal would be damn good. The Sox save money and get quality players in return. Its a loss to lose Cotts, but it seems relatively fair. Essentially I see it as Jose Valentin for Jimmy Rollins and Maggs and the prospect for Randy Wolf, Pat Burrel and Marlyn Byrd. Wolfs Stats (27; 2.375 Mill last year): 16-10, 4.23 ERA, 200 IP, 176 H, 177 K -The two prior years he had ERA's in the low to mid 3's. Burrel Stats (27): .209 AVG, .309 OBP, 21 HR, 64 RBI, 72 BB, 142 K -However, the year before he hit .282 with a .376 OBP, 37 HR and 116 RBI Jimmy Rollins Stats (25): .263 AVG, .320 OBP, 8 HR, 62 RBI, 20 SB Marlyn Byrd (26; 300 K): .303 AVG, .366 OBP, 7 HR, 45 RBI, 11 SB (1cs) -Played in 135 games and has the potential to get even better. The one drastic flaw in all of these hitters are they do strike out. Byrds k's should decrease over time, but the same can't be said about Burrel and Rollins since they have had relatively high strikeout numbers since reaching the majors. However, a top of the order that consists of Rollins and Byrd has plenty of speed and should be potent. Byrd also is a very solid defensive centerfielder and the Sox have an outfield of Lee, Byrd and Burrel. Not quite as good defensive as Lee, Rowand, Magglio. In the infield, Rollins is pretty damn good defensively and has the potential to get better with the bat. He is also very fast and a threat to steal at all times. Randy Wolf is a pitcher that helps solidify the rotation. The Sox also lower their payroll quite a bit in this move and get a lot of players that should be contributing for a long time. If the Sox could somehow do this deal and give up a lesser prospect or even someone like Jon Rauch instead of Neil Cotts, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Awesome, we could have two stalled offensive bats, Kong and Burrell. Would he go to right, or would CLee? I would think about it if Cotts was involved, but I would be very hesitant. I do like Byrd and Wolf. Isn't Rollins a FA next season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 That deal sounds almost too good to be true. Burrells numbers would explode at hitter friendly Comiskey, plus getting into the AL would help him as well. It would also give us some room to make a late run at a FA if we wanted, if I am calculating correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 Ya and when you think about it, the deal makes sense as Philly will lose Jose's contract at the end of the season and they get rid of a long term contract in Burrel and Magglio can be a real force in their lineup, the one questionmark they really have. This deal probably puts the Phillies over the top but it also makes the Sox better, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Ya and when you think about it, the deal makes sense as Philly will lose Jose's contract at the end of the season and they get rid of a long term contract in Burrel and Magglio can be a real force in their lineup, the one questionmark they really have. This deal probably puts the Phillies over the top but it also makes the Sox better, imo. I like it because of the fact we don't lose Mags for nothing, get a tough SS, and a quality pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 As I've been saying about Konerko, He has had an off year and his value is down. The same applies to Burrell. I think this is a deal worth exploring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 As I've been saying about Konerko, He has had an off year and his value is down. The same applies to Burrell. I think this is a deal worth exploring. Of course, if Burrel and Konerko don't come bcak to form it blows up in our faces, but like you said, both have semi proven themselves and well each improved. Both have tough contracts, but the Sox end up saving money big time and could even add someone like Urbina to strengthen their pen and they fill essentially every hole but 2nd base and the bench becomes much stronger with Rowand coming off, Uribe as the ultra utility guy and Alomar Jr as the backup catcher. Then you have Gload as the lefty stick and potentially Marvin Bernard or someone like that. I'm getting pretty excited about this deal, it would really be a way to fill the rotation, fill the top of the order and cut payroll plus the Sox are getting players that are just about to enter their prime. Damn it, now that I'm excited I know it ain't gonna happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 I'm getting pretty excited about this deal, it would really be a way to fill the rotation, fill the top of the order and cut payroll plus the Sox are getting players that are just about to enter their prime. And this is what makes the deal intriguing to the Sox (and Sox Fans!!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 And this is what makes the deal intriguing to the Sox (and Sox Fans!!!) The big question is would the Phillies do it? They get a super star right fielder and a solid, bigger middle of the order thread of a ss in Jose Rollins. From the sounds of it, the Phillies aren't too pleased with Rollins but Byrd had a future with them, although they have a pretty good farm system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 The big question is would the Phillies do it? They get a super star right fielder and a solid, bigger middle of the order thread of a ss in Jose Rollins. From the sounds of it, the Phillies aren't too pleased with Rollins but Byrd had a future with them, although they have a pretty good farm system. It honestly sounds good from both sides, although that would deffinately mean that the Phils are going for it all this year; losing Mags and Jose next year, plus a pretty huge payroll this year with Wagner, Thome, Mags, Valentin, Abreu (sp?), Millwood, Liberthal (maybe) and I am sure there are more big contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 I'd assume with the contract they lose in Burrel that they feel they could sign Maggs long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 The big question is would the Phillies do it? They get a super star right fielder and a solid, bigger middle of the order thread of a ss in Jose Rollins. From the sounds of it, the Phillies aren't too pleased with Rollins but Byrd had a future with them, although they have a pretty good farm system. I think is a "believeable" deal from both sides. Maggs and Thome would make one helluva left-right combo in the middle of the order. Rollins fits our needs as far as a sparkplug type player, or Byrd does as well. You've already mentioned Valentin's one year contract ... and Cotts gives them some young pitching depth and Wolf fills a big need for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiff Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Phillies are givin up way too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 I can't see the Sox taking on this kind of contract (Burrell).... 2003: $1.0M (+$1.5M signing bonus) 2004: $4.0M 2005: $7.0M 2006: $9.5M 2007: $13.0M 2008: $14.0M I think I would rather just keep Jose and Maggs and risk losing them next year and spending the freed up cash on other players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Its a trade that is about potential ability vs present ability. Burrel could come back to pre2003 or could hit sub .270 the rest of his career. Rollins could be great, or he could turn into Royce Clayton. Wolf is a good starter, could be great, could have a 4.5 era or more in the AL. Its a risk for the Sox to take if this trade is for real, especially if we have to give up a high level prospect. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Please consider the source of this rumor before growing too excited. And I think the Phillies are getting a raw deal if they did this. Byrd is considered a player who is ready to break out this coming season. Burrell has the potential to be a great player if he can shorten his swing. Wolf is a legit number two starter. And Rollins, well, let's just say he'd be way more coveted than Jose Valentin. In my opinion, we'd need to give more than Ordonez, Valentin and Cotts for the Phillies to take this deal. I realize we are giving up Maggs, but we are getting players with high value in return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 I see this really being a win-win for both sides. I also think this could attract some more people to Philly, who are opening a new field this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 I don't see why Philly would even think about doing this trade. Yes, they get rid of a bad contract in Burrel, but they are giving up way too much for 2 one-year rentals. They are also adding to their payroll, which most experts feel is maxed out with the additions of Wagner and Milton, and Millwood accepting arbitration. Philly has a deep pitching staff, but that doesn't mean that they will/want to trade away a very good 27 year old lefty. Furthermore, Philly gave away some pretty talented youngsters to get Milton and Wagner, and now you want them to give up a good 27 year old lefy starter, a solid 25 year old SS, an extremely talented 26 year old CF, and a very good 27 year old OF. Why don't the Sox ask for every one of Philly's good players under the age of 28(including prospects) while they are at it? This trade is nothing more then wishful thinking, one-sided, BS. Please don't put much stock into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 I don't see why Philly would even think about doing this trade. Yes, they get rid of a bad contract in Burrel, but they are giving up way too much for 2 one-year rentals. They are also adding to their payroll, which most experts feel is maxed out with the additions of Wagner and Milton, and Millwood accepting arbitration. Philly has a deep pitching staff, but that doesn't mean that they will/want to trade away a very good 27 year old lefty. Furthermore, Philly gave away some pretty talented youngsters to get Milton and Wagner, and now you want them to give up a good 27 year old lefy starter, a solid 25 year old SS, an extremely talented 26 year old CF, and a very good 27 year old OF. Why don't the Sox ask for every one of Philly's good players under the age of 28(including prospects) while they are at it? This trade is nothing more then wishful thinking, one-sided, BS. Please don't put much stock into it. Which is precisely why it will never happen. I'm kinda ready for the season to start so people have something better to do than make up rumors to start discussion. This is getting rather old... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 This deal would really benefit the sox.......so of course it's not gonna happen. I'll wait for a credible source before I get excited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 This deal would really benefit the sox.......so of course it's not gonna happen. I'll wait for a credible source before I get excited. This deal is as good as done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 I caught this on WSI and supposedly Chet Koppick mentioned this deal. Don't ask me who the hell Chet Koppick is White Sox Trade: - Magglio Ordonez - Jose Valentin - Prospect (Mentions Neil Cotts) White Sox Receive: - Randy Wolf (LHP) - Pat Burrel (OF) - Marlyn Byrd (CF) - Jimmy Rollins (SS) This move makes sense in the sense that the Phillies add instant offense and they can afford to give up Randy Wolf cause their rotation is very deep. They also give up a pretty bad contract in Burrel who is due only 4 mill this year, but signed a big time deal and the money will go up and up and I think at his max for one year he makes like 13 mill. Rollins just signed that deal for 2.5 mill. Byrd is signed for cheap, he's a very young, high upside centerfielder that posted very good numbers for the Phillies last year. Don't know the status on Wolf, but he's a very good left handed pitcher. To me this deal would be damn good. The Sox save money and get quality players in return. Its a loss to lose Cotts, but it seems relatively fair. Essentially I see it as Jose Valentin for Jimmy Rollins and Maggs and the prospect for Randy Wolf, Pat Burrel and Marlyn Byrd. Wolfs Stats (27; 2.375 Mill last year): 16-10, 4.23 ERA, 200 IP, 176 H, 177 K -The two prior years he had ERA's in the low to mid 3's. Burrel Stats (27): .209 AVG, .309 OBP, 21 HR, 64 RBI, 72 BB, 142 K -However, the year before he hit .282 with a .376 OBP, 37 HR and 116 RBI Jimmy Rollins Stats (25): .263 AVG, .320 OBP, 8 HR, 62 RBI, 20 SB Marlyn Byrd (26; 300 K): .303 AVG, .366 OBP, 7 HR, 45 RBI, 11 SB (1cs) -Played in 135 games and has the potential to get even better. The one drastic flaw in all of these hitters are they do strike out. Byrds k's should decrease over time, but the same can't be said about Burrel and Rollins since they have had relatively high strikeout numbers since reaching the majors. However, a top of the order that consists of Rollins and Byrd has plenty of speed and should be potent. Byrd also is a very solid defensive centerfielder and the Sox have an outfield of Lee, Byrd and Burrel. Not quite as good defensive as Lee, Rowand, Magglio. In the infield, Rollins is pretty damn good defensively and has the potential to get better with the bat. He is also very fast and a threat to steal at all times. Randy Wolf is a pitcher that helps solidify the rotation. The Sox also lower their payroll quite a bit in this move and get a lot of players that should be contributing for a long time. If the Sox could somehow do this deal and give up a lesser prospect or even someone like Jon Rauch instead of Neil Cotts, I'd do it in a heartbeat. If the Sox could make this deal, and don't, they are out of their minds!!! Remember, that IF the ARod deal happens, and this deal happens, then the Phils could get Williamson and Nomar for Maggs! That would make it a damned good deal for the Phils too! :fthecubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXFANSINCE72 Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Chet Coppack was a sports anchor for WMAQ channel 5 way back in the late 70s early 80s. He and the Gumble brothers did sports way back then. He also had a radio sports talk show in the 80s, sort of like the the Score. I think Dan McNeil (WMVP/ESPN) used to work with him. His famous line was to callers "your dime your dancefloor". I think his roots are Chicago - but he left in the late 80s to go to New York. Haven't heard much of him since. ...for whatever it's worth. Now I've aged myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Chet Coppack was a sports anchor for WMAQ channel 5 way back in the late 70s early 80s. He and the Gumble brothers did sports way back then. He also had a radio sports talk show in the 80s, sort of like the the Score. I think Dan McNeil (WMVP/ESPN) used to work with him. His famous line was to callers "your dime your dancefloor". I think his roots are Chicago - but he left in the late 80s to go to New York. Haven't heard much of him since. ...for whatever it's worth. Now I've aged myself. I think you and I are about the same age, I was born in 1962, and grew up in West Rogers Park. (Mather HS) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 I don't see why Philly would even think about doing this trade. Yes, they get rid of a bad contract in Burrel, but they are giving up way too much for 2 one-year rentals. Why would Maggs be considered a rental player for them? I can see why Jose would, mainly because he's 35 or 36 and is getting worse as he gets older(like all players do), but I would think they would resign Maggs if at all possible. Also, if it happened, and Burrell did come back to form, who says we don't trade him to the highest bidder with his price tag in 2006 or so. Then agian, if he doesn't we sell him off for peanuts. I like the deal, and do see why the Phils would make it, but I don't think they will make it. However, I don't doubt that something like this could actually be in the works....it is the type high risk high reward deal that KW likes to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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