SoxAce Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 and whos says Borchard is healthy or was last year or the year before? Just because Reed is complaining about his bad wrists doesn't mean that every player lets their injuries out for everyone to know about them. Well, maybe because Borchard has an incredible work ethic of preparing and usually he doesn't get injured. Reed does as well, but he has had some unfortunite ones (making a catch while hitting the wall hard thts how he messed up his wrist, and that collision with Valdez) Reed didnt even make it known. I believe aboz gave a report on him on futuresox. It's incredible how he's batting in the .275-.280 range while having bad wrist. Borchard could even get on his jock for that kind of average.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 I think SouthSideIrish hit the nail on the head. I have absolutely no problem giving him up for Freddy. Since it seems that Kenny really wants to resign him, I think the deal was a no brainer. When you consider Reed is going to hit in Safeco instead of US Cellular, that's going to seriously hurt what little power potential he had. As for Borchard's comparison in the majors, my best guess is Joe Crede at the plate, with a little more pop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Oh you can count on it. (thats if Reed even makes it to the majors) Well he's off to a very good start in Tacoma isn't he? Plus, SEa. GM said Reed should be in the majors very soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Why even bother arguing, Jeremy Reed is GONE. Go talk about his sabermetric value with Mariner fans if you're going to be a smartass about it. Maybe you could even ask Billy Beane what he thinks, since he's won so many world titles with sabermetrics. Yeah and lets go talk to KW about how getting all these "Power Players" have won US so many world series...  Reed will have a better career than Borchard... mark it  Borchard is a bust, he has declined every year and im tired of watching him suck ass in the minors.. yes SUCK ASS... MR Potential should have lived up to it by now because the numbers he has put up in AAA STINK... they are horrid...  Yet we gave away the Minor League Player of the Year insted... someone who would be a much greater asset to the team then another power hitter.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Yeah, Reed's off to a BLAZING start in Tacoma. Too bad he hasn't even played game #5 in their jersey yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 What's that supposed to mean? You have nothing to say he's an 'average' runner and an 'average' fielder. I go by stats. I go by people's word firsthand who've seen the kid play before.  Stats show he has good SB numbers. So either he gets good jumps, is quick, or is pretty fast. The minor league gurus on this website, before Reed was traded, even said he wasn't a speedburner, but an above average runner who could play all three outfield positions above average. So do I, so who are these people? I have read that he can only play in RF if he can't stick in CF. Because his arm is not good enough RF and his power is not considered to be corner OF potential.  He is basically a man without a position. He can't hit for enough power and does not have a strong enough arm to play RF in the majors. He does not have enough range to play CF in the majors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 When you consider Reed is going to hit in Safeco instead of US Cellular, that's going to seriously hurt what little power potential he had. As for Borchard's comparison in the majors, my best guess is Joe Crede at the plate, with a little more pop. It's going to seriousle help him. Safeco is like the Birm. park. It's more of a pitchers park. Reed is a line drive hitter. Besides, scouts are usually wrong about everything. They said Palmeiro would be JUST a gap hitter like Reed. Look who's in the 500 homerun club? As for being compared to Crede.. that's not saying much considering how inconsistant Crede has been throughout his young career so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Yeah and lets go talk to KW about how getting all these "Power Players" have won US so many world series... Reed will have a better career than Borchard... mark it  Borchard is a bust, he has declined every year and im tired of watching him suck ass in the minors.. yes SUCK ASS... MR Potential should have lived up to it by now because the numbers he has put up in AAA STINK... they are horrid...  Yet we gave away the Minor League Player of the Year insted... someone who would be a much greater asset to the team then another power hitter.. Just to make myself clear... I still like the move to get Freddy Garcia, what I dont like is we gave Reed insted of Borchard... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 and whos says Borchard is healthy or was last year or the year before? Just because Reed is complaining about his bad wrists doesn't mean that every player lets their injuries out for everyone to know about them. Ok that's just complete and utter bulls***. Reed has not once complained about his wrists. They've both been fighting injuries this year and both have been doing solid jobs. If you don't like reed and think Borch is better, make a real argument don't come back with bs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 I think SouthSideIrish hit the nail on the head. I have absolutely no problem giving him up for Freddy. Since it seems that Kenny really wants to resign him, I think the deal was a no brainer. When you consider Reed is going to hit in Safeco instead of US Cellular, that's going to seriously hurt what little power potential he had. As for Borchard's comparison in the majors, my best guess is Joe Crede at the plate, with a little more pop. But this isn't even about analyzing the trade. It's more a comparison of the two players, Reed and Borchard. Â The Reed backers (I consider myself to be one) think that he will be a very good, maybe not a superstar, but a very good player. He should be a very good number 2 in a few years. Probably a .280-.310 hitter, .350-.400 OBP, anywhere from 10HR-25HR a year kind of a guy. Â The Borchard backers (I consider myself to be on this side too) think that Borchard can really be a superstar if he gets his s*** together. He's got a lot of power, just needs to make more contact, etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 its impossible to say who is gonna be the betetr ballplayer  this much we do know...joe borchard's trade value was at its peak about 2 years ago...jeremy reed's trade value is peaking right now...from that standpoint trading reed made sense..  lets hope both guys develop and everyone is happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Yeah, Reed's off to a BLAZING start in Tacoma. Too bad he hasn't even played game #5 in their jersey yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 So do I, so who are these people? I have read that he can only play in RF if he can't stick in CF. Because his arm is not good enough RF and his power is not considered to be corner OF potential. He is basically a man without a position. He can't hit for enough power and does not have a strong enough arm to play RF in the majors. He does not have enough range to play CF in the majors. Who says you have to play a posision based on how many HR;s you can hit?  Ichiro in RF, he has little power  Your ability to hit HR's has nothing to do with where you play in the field.. its your defense abilites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Well, maybe because Borchard has an incredible work ethic of preparing and usually he doesn't get injured. Reed does as well, but he has had some unfortunite ones (making a catch while hitting the wall hard thts how he messed up his wrist, and that collision with Valdez) Reed didnt even make it known. I believe aboz gave a report on him on futuresox. It's incredible how he's batting in the .275-.280 range while having bad wrist. Borchard could even get on his jock for that kind of average.. How did Aboz get this information again if REED himself wasn't the one to say anything about it? HMMMMM... Â Good for Borchard, one more thing to love about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 So do I, so who are these people? I have read that he can only play in RF if he can't stick in CF. Because his arm is not good enough RF and his power is not considered to be corner OF potential. He is basically a man without a position. He can't hit for enough power and does not have a strong enough arm to play RF in the majors. He does not have enough range to play CF in the majors. SSI, now you're just pulling stuff out of your ass. A man without a position? He can play any OF position. Book it. And again, show me something that says that Reed can't stick it in CF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Who says you have to play a posision based on how many HR;s you can hit? Ichiro in RF, he has little power  Your ability to hit HR's has nothing to do with where you play in the field.. its your defense abilites Ichiro plays RF for one reason only his canon for an arm. How is Reed's arm again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 So this is saying that Joe doesn't have superstar talent in your eyes, but what exactly are those eyes? How often do you personally watch him play? If it is only when he gets a cup of coffee at the majors or in spring training then I don't see how that is a fair evaluation. 2nd I didn't know you were a scout to make such evaluations and ME thinks you are going on numbers alone instead of just watching him play in order to evaluate him correctly. If the Mariners wanted Borchard instead of Reed that should say something right there.  Reed's upside is clearly not the same as Borchard's. That is clear to every scout, well I guess except for you. There is still plenty of time for him to succeed and become a star in this league. Podsednik and Nevin are two examples of that. I think the biggest tool Borchard has in his favor that no one else in our entire organization posesses is left handed power.  So where are Reed's tools and what will make him a superstar, because I have not seen one scout predict him to become the next superstar. The closest thing to a major league player that he has been compared to is Mark Kotsay. If we miss out on having the next Mark Kotsay then I will not be crying one tear for getting Freddy Garcia back in return. Left-handed power?  I guess we should have never let Jeff Leifer go, then.   Joe could be a late bloomer like Podsednik (bad example - Melvyn Mora was more of a sensational turn-around imo)?  Great. I didn't know that initially busting out was a "tool". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 lets hope both guys develop and everyone is happy Ill live with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 SSI, now you're just pulling stuff out of your ass. A man without a position? He can play any OF position. Book it. And again, show me something that says that Reed can't stick it in CF? You show me that says somthing that he can. He simply doesn't have the range for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Left-handed power?  I guess we should have never let Jeff Leifer go, then.   Joe could be a late bloomer like Podsednik (bad example - Melvyn Mora was more of a sensational turn-around imo)?  Great. I didn't know that initially busting out was a "tool". Jeff Leifer!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 But this isn't even about analyzing the trade. It's more a comparison of the two players, Reed and Borchard. The Reed backers (I consider myself to be one) think that he will be a very good, maybe not a superstar, but a very good player. He should be a very good number 2 in a few years. Probably a .280-.310 hitter, .350-.400 OBP, anywhere from 10HR-25HR a year kind of a guy.  The Borchard backers (I consider myself to be on this side too) think that Borchard can really be a superstar if he gets his s*** together. He's got a lot of power, just needs to make more contact, etc etc. and how long are we gonna have to wait for him to "Get his s*** together"  3 more years??  He has been a bust so far, not ONE person on this board can deny that.. If he doesnt change that soon everyone is going to give up on him.. I dont want another .240 hitter that can hit 30 HR's... We dont need that..  What would be nice is a #2 hole hitter who can hit.300 and get an OBP around .380-.400 and steal some bases... that woulda been nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 You show me that says somthing that he can. He simply doesn't have the range for it. Where are you getting this from though? That he doesn't have the range for it? Are you just guessing? Where did you read this? ABoz said that Reed wasn't a gold glover, but still an above average outfielder. Aboz has seen Reed play before. Have you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 and how long are we gonna have to wait for him to "Get his s*** together"Â 3 more years?? Â He has been a bust so far, not ONE person on this board can deny that.. If he doesnt change that soon everyone is going to give up on him.. I dont want another .240 hitter that can hit 30 HR's... We dont need that.. Â What would be nice is a #2 hole hitter who can hit.300 and get an OBP around .380-.400 and steal some bases... that woulda been nice another .240 hitter that can hit 30 homers a season? We have a someone that can do that? Wow, cool, another one. Lets line these guys up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Ichiro plays RF for one reason only his canon for an arm. How is Reed's arm again? So are you trying to tell me that they play people in OF posistions based on thier power numbers?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 I'll say it again.. Come back to me in 3 years just to see who is having more of a stud career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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