I felt this deserved it's own thread, if you mods feel it doesn't, you can go right ahead and merge it to another one of the various Jose Contreras' threads.

 

Here's the dirt on Jose Contreras. I thought it would be of interest to many people on the board, so I've compiled what I consider the more important stats for Jose.

 

Here goes:

 

 

Career: Jose has a career record of 15-7 in 27 games started (9 relief appearances.). In those appearances he pitched 166 2/3rds innings, has a K/BB ratio of 154/72, a 4.64 ERA and a 1.30 WHIP.

 

He seems to pitch equally well vs. lefties and righties, but he does do a bit better vs. lefties. Lefties hit .225 against him with 39 walks, and righties hit .236 against him with 33 walks.

 

It also looks (very small sample size, so take it FWIW) like we have a second-half pitcher on our hands. Pre-All Star Break, in 94 IP, he posted a 5.38 ERA and a 1.47 WHIP. Post-All Star Break, he seems dominant; 3.72 ERA and only a 1.09 WHIP, with batters hitting .209 off of him. His K/BB ratios also improved pre-ASB to post-ASB, with the ratio post-ASB at about 3/1.

 

Kenny Williams was right when he said the division is going to have a very diverse look in our rotation, as Contreras has never faced Cleveland or KC, and has only faced ONE BATTER on Minny. He has faced Detroit, and the following are his numbers vs. teams that we face in the second half:

 

(Before I post the vs Boston numbers, be warned; they are ugly, to say the least.)

vs. Bos - 15 1/3rd IP, 28 ER, 16/14 K/BB, 16.43 ERA ( :puke ), 2.74 WHIP, .394 BAA.

 

vs. Det - 19.2 IP, 3 ER, 19/6 K/BB, 1.37 ERA, .86 WHIP ( ), .159 BAA.

 

vs. Oak - 8 IP, 7 ER, 6/5 K/BB, 7.88 ERA, 1.63 WHIP, .258 BAA.

 

vs. Tex - 6 IP, 1 ER, 7/2 K/BB, 1.50 ERA, .83 WHIP, .143 BAA.

 

 

What I've gotten from the research I've done? Very simple, IMHO. When Jose has a good K/BB ratio, it seems everything clicks - I guess that's a simple hypothesis (Honors Biology.... Yes! ), but when he's striking out more people, it seems like he is dominant.

 

I think Kenny saw a couple of things in him:

 

a.)If they could fix this flaw, he is an ace. An awesome, dominant pitcher - Kenny is probably very confident they can fix this.

 

b.)Detroit is really the only team in our division who's had a good look at Contreras, and look at their success (or lack thereof.). I really think that Jose should succeed vs. Minny, Cleveland, and hopefully on Tuesday and beyond, KC.

 

 

Hope you guys like it, it's 1:00 AM, I'm bored, so I thought I'd make some use of this time. Again - mods, if you guys feel it should be merged, go right ahead and do so.

yep, that's long but with some great info, thanks.

Nice stats there CWS. I've made my view very clear that I think this guy is one hell of a pitcher and has some of the nastiest stuff I've ever seen. I've never understood how he gets hit and if they can fix his flaw to tip pitches and he pitches up to his stuff, we have another ace and a rotation for this year and the next two off : Garcia, Buehrle, Contreras, Garland, Shoney for this year, Diaz, Cotts, FA pick up for the next couple.

 

In the words of Hawk: MERCY!!

CWS406, it's an interesting read, but, IMO, you have to throw those stats against Detroit out the window.

 

Last year, Detroit did not have IRod behind the plate, Guillen at SS hitting .330, White in LF, or Inge hitting decently. They actually have an offense this year.

 

 

However, I still love the move. Minnesota will not be able to get comfortable against our staff at all...going into the season the rotation was Loaiza-Buehrle-Garland-Scho-Wright...and now it is Garcia-Buehrle-Contreras-Garland-Scho. We went from not having a guy who can throw it harder then 93 to having 2 guys who can throw 95, with one of them having top 5 stuff(atleast according to Eric Chavez) in Freddy Garcia, and the other who has the best splitter he's(Frank Thomas) has ever seen.

I felt this deserved it's own thread, if you mods feel it doesn't, you can go right ahead and merge it to another one of the various Jose Contreras' threads.

 

Here's the dirt on Jose Contreras.  I thought it would be of interest to many people on the board, so I've compiled what I consider the more important stats for Jose.

 

Here goes:

 

 

Career:  Jose has a career record of 15-7 in 27 games started (9 relief appearances.).  In those appearances he pitched 166 2/3rds innings, has a K/BB ratio of 154/72, a 4.64 ERA and a 1.30 WHIP.

 

He seems to pitch equally well vs. lefties and righties, but he does do a bit better vs. lefties.  Lefties hit .225 against him with 39 walks, and righties hit .236 against him with 33 walks.

 

It also looks (very small sample size, so take it FWIW) like we have a second-half pitcher on our hands.  Pre-All Star Break, in 94 IP, he posted a 5.38 ERA and a 1.47 WHIP.  Post-All Star Break, he seems dominant; 3.72 ERA and only a 1.09 WHIP, with batters hitting .209 off of him.  His K/BB ratios also improved pre-ASB to post-ASB, with the ratio post-ASB at about 3/1.

 

Kenny Williams was right when he said the division is going to have a very diverse look in our rotation, as Contreras has never faced Cleveland or KC, and has only faced ONE BATTER on Minny.  He has faced Detroit, and the following are his numbers vs. teams that we face in the second half:

 

(Before I post the vs Boston numbers, be warned; they are ugly, to say the least.)

vs. Bos - 15 1/3rd IP, 28 ER, 16/14 K/BB, 16.43 ERA ( :puke ), 2.74 WHIP, .394 BAA.

 

vs. Det - 19.2 IP, 3 ER, 19/6 K/BB, 1.37 ERA, .86 WHIP ( ), .159 BAA.

 

vs. Oak - 8 IP, 7 ER, 6/5 K/BB, 7.88 ERA, 1.63 WHIP, .258 BAA.

 

vs. Tex - 6 IP, 1 ER, 7/2 K/BB, 1.50 ERA, .83 WHIP, .143 BAA.

 

 

What I've gotten from the research I've done?  Very simple, IMHO.  When Jose has a good K/BB ratio, it seems everything clicks - I guess that's a simple hypothesis (Honors Biology....  Yes!  ), but when he's striking out more people, it seems like he is dominant. 

 

I think Kenny saw a couple of things in him:

 

a.)If they could fix this flaw, he is an ace.  An awesome, dominant pitcher - Kenny is probably very confident they can fix this.

 

b.)Detroit is really the only team in our division who's had a good look at Contreras, and look at their success (or lack thereof.).  I really think that Jose should succeed vs. Minny, Cleveland, and hopefully on Tuesday and beyond, KC.

 

 

Hope you guys like it, it's 1:00 AM, I'm bored, so I thought I'd make some use of this time.  Again - mods, if you guys feel it should be merged, go right ahead and do so.

All those splits mean diddly squat.

 

Today you're 0-3, 6.70 ERA against a team. Tomorrow - 3-0, 1.25.

 

Welcome to the wonderful world of baseball.

 

 

 

 

Contreras could be unhitttable. Or he could pull a Navarro. I like the trade.

the best splitter he's(Frank Thomas) has ever seen.

Sandy Alomar also said that..

 

"It surprises me he struggles at all," Alomar said. "That day (in 2003) he had command, and all his pitches were nasty. His ball was moving a lot. I didn't see a better split finger that night from anybody else.

 

"That's the best I've ever seen, and I caught Paul Shuey. This year we faced him and we hit him pretty hard. You're going to be off some days. It seems like he's had a lot of off days this year. I don't know if it's concentration or family problems."

Sandy Alomar also said that..

That is really almost a bigger compliment.

 

It's one thing to have it be said by one of the greatest hitters of the era. It's another thing to have it be said by a catcher who has been around 15 years and has been around the league and caught some damn good pitchers.

Yeah, his forkball is unhittable. The problem is he won't throw it unless he's up 0-2.

Yea.. and Paul Shueys' splitter was as good as it gets right there..

Very interesting, cwsguy... Good read!

Thanks for the info, Cwsguy. I think we've got a potential stud on our hands.

Yeah, his forkball is unhittable.  The problem is he won't throw it unless he's up 0-2.

Yeah but with guys like Don Cooper and Sandy around, those bad habits can be fixed.

I just heard on Mike and Mike that Kenny said he saw how Contreras was tipping his pitches and he thinks we can fix hat problem. Wasn't the same thing being said about Freddy Garcia last year?

On the surface I like the trade. However, the Yankees are not idiots and traded him for a reason, and it is probably something we have not heard.

 

For once, we may have traded a guy (E-Lo) at his peak of value and right before he implodes.

 

I like the trade, but am not as giddy as some. I cannpt believe we robbed the Yankees and the Marlins in the same year.

On the surface I like the trade. However, the Yankees are not idiots and traded him for a reason, and it is probably something we have not heard.

 

For once, we may have traded a guy (E-Lo) at his peak of value and right before he implodes.

 

I like the trade, but am not as giddy as some. I cannpt believe we robbed the Yankees and  the Marlins in the same year.

Haven't many of the Yankee players said that he has great stuff and know he will be great here? I don't see any harm in trading for a pitcher with that kind of stuff for a pitcher who was almost out of the league last year and seemed to have lost his velocity and confidence this year.

I just heard on Mike and Mike that Kenny said he saw how Contreras was tipping his pitches and he thinks we can fix hat problem. Wasn't the same thing being said about Freddy Garcia last year?

Not sure, but I know Freddy was having some ear problems for a couple of years. He was really having trouble keeping balance etc on the mound. This last offseason he had surgery to repair that; that's why he's back to his usual form.

Yeah, his forkball is unhittable.  The problem is he won't throw it unless he's up 0-2.

That's the way it should be. An out pitch is an out pitch.

 

Now all Contreras needs is a pinpoint control with his mid-90's heater and good command of his breaking ball, and he's set.

Yeah but with guys like Don Cooper and Sandy around, those bad habits can be fixed.

Does "fixing" entail fastball dropping to 80's ala so many other Sox projects.

 

And when did Cooper stop being a subpar pitching coach and became a guru?

That's the way it should be.    An out pitch is an out pitch.

 

Now all Contreras needs is a pinpoint control with his mid-90's heater and good command of his breaking ball, and he's set.

I disagree. If he has confidence to throw that pitch 2-2 and even 2-1, he could be that much better. One of his problems in New York was shaking this pitch off when behind in the count and getting rocked on his heater.