Reddy Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 how do you if lee isn't a good clubhouse man???? i meant thats not exactly what he's known for. i know it wasnt worded well, but you dont hear about what a great guy clee is in the clubhouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 ref to jackie hayes i always wanted to trade mags and c lee for several yrs now, and for me and those who know me, knows that it is a running joke. but i will still trade c lee now as suppose to later. Maggs too? Tough crowd... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 i meant thats not exactly what he's known for. i know it wasnt worded well, but you dont hear about what a great guy clee is in the clubhouse ok, i see what you are saying. the only thing i keep hearing and from the press and sportswriter is how much of a team player paulie is and jose v...................... outside those 2, i haven't heard much of anyone else. the only time i heard anything about c lee is when he went toe to toe with big frank and not sliding either last yr or the yr before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 C'mon, bunting ability is not that valuable. Tell that to the angels and marlins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Tell that to the angels and marlins. We have more sacrifices than the Angels. The Expos lead the majors, the A's and Red Sox are 29 and 30, and they're headed for the playoffs, so it seems. The Twins are 23, well below the Sox at 13. So where's the advantage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 We have more sacrifices than the Angels. The Expos lead the majors, the A's and Red Sox are 29 and 30, and they're headed for the playoffs, so it seems. The Twins are 23, well below the Sox at 13. So where's the advantage? How many s***ty s***ty bunts have the sox had this year? Too many to even count. They are also popping it up to the catcher or bunted it foul on with 2 strikes and striking out. On the other hand those teams can get the down succesfully. We don't have any good bunters outside of timo perez and he is not all that great. A's and the red sox have good obp as a team and pretty good averages. Not as much of a need to bunt. All around they are superior fundamental teams compared to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 How many s***ty s***ty bunts have the sox had this year? Too many to even count. They are also popping it up to the catcher or bunted it foul on with 2 strikes and striking out. On the other hand those teams can get the down succesfully. We don't have any good bunters outside of timo perez and he is not all that great. A's and the red sox have good obp as a team and pretty good averages. Not as much of a need to bunt. All around they are superior fundamental teams compared to us. Well, if your team's not bunting well, stop trying it! What you're saying indicts the coaching staff more than the players. I don't agree with your argument, that teams that are not as well-rounded can make up for it in bunting. The Twins and Rangers have low obp, and low sacrifices, and they've played well. Anyway, obp appears to be much more closely correlated with winning, why don't we work on that and ignore bunting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Well, if your team's not bunting well, stop trying it! What you're saying indicts the coaching staff more than the players. I don't agree with your argument, that teams that are not as well-rounded can make up for it in bunting. The Twins and Rangers have low obp, and low sacrifices, and they've played well. Anyway, obp appears to be much more closely correlated with winning, why don't we work on that and ignore bunting? I also said that they are better fundamental teams which they are. That means they are not selfish and actually know how to move runners over unlike the sox. The sox mostly try for the 5 run homeruns which is not a way to succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 I also said that they are better fundamental teams which they are. That means they are not selfish and actually know how to move runners over unlike the sox. The sox mostly try for the 5 run homeruns which is not a way to succeed. Moving runners over how? Not with sacrifices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Moving runners over how? Not with sacrifices. When a man is on second with no outs and they hit the ball to the right side of the infield. Edit. The twins also are fourth in baseball with 103 steals which helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 When a man is on second with no outs and they hit the ball to the right side of the infield. Edit. The twins also are fourth in baseball with 103 steals which helps. I admit, I don't have the stats on outs to the right side of the infield when there is a runner on second with none out. I've looked and looked and... If you have these, please share them. If there is a very large discrepancy between the Red Sox and the A's, and the rest of the league, fine. I doubt it. The Twins are only 11th in sb%, good but not great. It hurts you when it doesn't work at least as much as it helps when it does work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 I admit, I don't have the stats on outs to the right side of the infield when there is a runner on second with none out. I've looked and looked and... If you have these, please share them. If there is a very large discrepancy between the Red Sox and the A's, and the rest of the league, fine. I doubt it. The Twins are only 11th in sb%, good but not great. It hurts you when it doesn't work at least as much as it helps when it does work. I was speaking of the twins and rangers since you said they do not have very good obp. I know this because i watch many of their games on mlb extra innings. The red sox and a's are good because of there obp and pretty good situational hitting. The twins stolen base % is at 72%. Like you said its not great but the point is that they attempt so many stolen bases it puts alot of pressure on opposing pitchers every single time someone is on base, outside of lecroy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 I'd guess either Konerko or Lee will be gone this off season. I would prefere that it would be Konerko though. Lee continues to get better every season. We don't want to lose 2 outfield starters in 1 season. (Ordonez and Lee) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 I was speaking of the twins and rangers since you said they do not have very good obp. I know this because i watch many of their games on mlb extra innings. The red sox and a's are good because of there obp and pretty good situational hitting. The twins stolen base % is at 72%. Like you said its not great but the point is that they attempt so many stolen bases it puts alot of pressure on opposing pitchers every single time someone is on base, outside of lecroy. Okay. But personally I'll believe it when I see it in the numbers. Not to say that game watching is not informative, but I think a person would have to watch minimum 1/2 of the games of a team (spaced more or less evenly) with REALLY good recall to have a better sense of a team than the stats can give. As for steals, hey, I still point to the fact that PK is perfect on the year. I believe in the obp story, not the small ball story. I think Florida's most important hitters have been Cabrera and Lowell, not Pierre and Castillo (although you do need high-obp types in the top spots). Anaheim, what can't Vlad Guerrero do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Okay. But personally I'll believe it when I see it in the numbers. Not to say that game watching is not informative, but I think a person would have to watch minimum 1/2 of the games of a team (spaced more or less evenly) with REALLY good recall to have a better sense of a team than the stats can give. As for steals, hey, I still point to the fact that PK is perfect on the year. I believe in the obp story, not the small ball story. I think Florida's most important hitters have been Cabrera and Lowell, not Pierre and Castillo (although you do need high-obp types in the top spots). Anaheim, what can't Vlad Guerrero do? I will try to find the stats in while but how can you possibly say pierre is not their number 1 or 2 most valuable player. It all starts with him. Also i may watch have of their games since most of their games are on at the same time as the sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 I will try to find the stats in while but how can you possibly say pierre is not their number 1 or 2 most valuable player. It all starts with him. Also i may watch have of their games since most of their games are on at the same time as the sox. His obp is no better than either Cabrera's or Lowell's, while his slg is much lower. He has more steals, that helps a bit, but his % is a bit low (64%). His big extra value is in the low k-rate. Now, don't get me wrong, he's almost an ideal leadoff guy, especially w/ the slight bump in slg this year. But it doesn't mean anything w/o Cabrera and Lowell. I just value that middle-of-the-lineup guy more than the leadoff man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Lee: .307 BA, .527 SLG Konerko: .276 BA, .541 SLG Regardless of numbers [which don't tell the whole story] IMO, PK is a smarter hitter/ baseball player than Lee. Lee is more talented, sure, and could get the Sox better players via a trade. But which guy would you want hitting in a big game, against a tough pitcher? Which guy is more likely to chase a pitch out of the zone? Which player is more likely to watch fights in the stands while the team is losing instead of concentrating on the game and taking a loss to heart? Don't get me wrong, both are good players. Yet I don't think both will be back. And the guy who may be less talented but has better intangibles may stick around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 PK is a smarter hitter Nuff said right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackSox8 Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Don't get me wrong, both are good players. Yet I don't think both will be back. And the guy who may be less talented but has better intangibles may stick around I don't really want to change this sig if that's true. I think it's ok for one to leave but both.......????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 I don't really want to change this sig if that's true. I think it's ok for one to leave but both.......????? What is meant by "I don't think both will be back" is that one of Konerko OR Lee will be dealt...meaning that one of them WILL be here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackSox8 Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 What is meant by "I don't think both will be back" is that one of Konerko OR Lee will be dealt...meaning that one of them WILL be here. whew...thank god i misread that.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 whew...thank god i misread that.. Still may have to change the sig, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackSox8 Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Still may have to change the sig, though. As long as i get to keep one. though i'd rather keep both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 As long as i get to keep one. though i'd rather keep both. I hope so too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 What qwerty is talking about is good, sound fundamental baseball. Sacrificing yourself to move a runner ... hitting behind a runner .. so on and so forth. The Sox suck in that area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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