Always is.

Very insightful, professor.

If we had a .500 record from our 5th starter slot, what would our W/L record have been?

 

It might have been good enough to make the playoffs.

 

IMO, right now, today, Eldred is better than Grilli or Diaz. If I needed a win (or even a quality start) today, and could only choose from Eldred, Grilli or Diaz, I'd have to go with Cal.

Eldred doesn't have the arm to be a starter no more. He only pitched 67 innings in 52 appearances this season. IF Eldred was a starter for us, he wouldn't make it through a full season anyways, LaRussa and Duncan know that, that's why they made him a reliever.

 

The Sox ended up finishing 9 games behind the Twinkies. Eldred wouldn't have been enough for us to make up that gap.

Eldred doesn't have the arm to be a starter no more. He only pitched 67 innings in 52 appearances this season. IF Eldred was a starter for us, he wouldn't make it through a full season anyways, LaRussa and Duncan know that, that's why they made him a reliever.

 

The Sox ended up finishing 9 games behind the Twinkies. Eldred wouldn't have been enough for us to make up that gap.

I understand that.

 

But, out of curiousity, do you (or anyone else) know what the Sox' W/L record was in 2004 in games started by our #5 starter?

Which would be hard since he is a free agent.

"That trade was incredibly one-sided" was what made me think he was traded.

I understand that.

 

But, out of curiousity, do you (or anyone else) know what the Sox' W/L record was in 2004 in games started by our #5 starter?

Jason Grilli was 2-3.

Felix Diaz was 2-5.

Jon Rauch was 1-1.

Neal Cotts was 0-1 in his only 5th starter appearance I think.

Shoe was 6-9 (became 5th starter after we acquired Garcia)

Dan Wright was 0-4.

Arnie Munoz was 0-1.

Josh Stewart was 0-1.

Thank you very much.

 

Unless I added wrong, we were 11-25 in starts by our #5. IF 9 (big "if") we were 18-18, we'd have been right in the hunt.

 

We'd have been 89-73 (ironically the same W/L as the cubs), and 1.5 games behind Minnesota.

There is no defending not getting a viable 5th starter for two years running, it is a colossal mistake which needs to be fixed by 4/1/05. That said, Eldred would not have been the answer.

There is no defending not getting a viable 5th starter for two years running, it is a colossal mistake which needs to be fixed by 4/1/05.  That said, Eldred would not have been the answer.

Agreed, but anything would have been better than what the Sox threw out there.

Thank you very much.

 

Unless I added wrong, we were 11-25 in starts by our #5. IF 9 (big "if") we were 18-18, we'd have been right in the hunt.

 

We'd have been 89-73 (ironically the same W/L as the cubs), and 1.5 games behind Minnesota.

I'm sorry if you think that, but Cal Eldred would not have won 18 games at the Cell.

 

If pitchers like Mark Buehrle and Freddy Garcia struggle to put up a sub-four ERA at the Cell, why in the hell would you think Cal Eldred would even be able to put up a sub-six ERA?

 

Until the White Sox organization decides to move the fences back, I think some of us just have to accept that, unless we get a real phenom in here, pitchers are going to give up runs at our home. It's real unfortunate that it's become that way, too, IMHO...

 

EDIT: As knightni has pointed out, this thread has gotten off topic. My apologies for posting off the subject.

I thought that this thread was supposed to be a positive lookback at the Valentin trade.

 

Why do you guys have to make everything so negative?

I'm sorry if you think that, but Cal Eldred would not have won 18 games at the Cell.

 

If pitchers like Mark Buehrle and Freddy Garcia struggle to put up a sub-four ERA at the Cell, why in the hell would you think Cal Eldred would even be able to put up a sub-six ERA?

 

Until the White Sox organization decides to move the fences back, I think some of us just have to accept that, unless we get a real phenom in here, pitchers are going to give up runs at our home.  It's real unfortunate that it's become that way, too, IMHO...

 

EDIT:  As knightni has pointed out, this thread has gotten off topic.  My apologies for posting off the subject.

I don't think he is suggesting Eldred would have won 18 games. He is suggesting that Eldred would have kept us in games so we could have won 18.

 

Though I agree that Eldred would not have been that great of an improvement over the guys we did trot out onto the field.

yeah as much as i hated valentin these last 2 years im going to miss him a little the guy had his moments

I thought that this thread was supposed to be a positive lookback at the Valentin trade.

 

Why do you guys have to make everything so negative?

At Soxfest the year we got Jose and Cal, I told Eldred he was the most popular guy in Chicago right now (because he meant the end of Navarro) Ray Durham was sitting next to him and about fell off of the podium laughing.

I thought that this thread was supposed to be a positive lookback at the Valentin trade.

 

Why do you guys have to make everything so negative?

It's what they do. :headshake

There is no defending not getting a viable 5th starter for two years running, it is a colossal mistake which needs to be fixed by 4/1/05.  That said, Eldred would not have been the answer.

Two years running it has been Danny Wright getting hurt that blowed up the plans. The original 5th guys did pretty good. In '03 Estaban Loiza was supposed to be the 5th guy and I'd say he worked out OK. Last year it was supposed to be Schoeneweis and he was supposed to get all the off days to ease his elbow.

 

Both years Danny went down so the intended 5th guy moved up; not having anybody in the wings they just rolled dice with the slot, lost and arguably blew two legitimate playoff bids.

 

So, looking at the teams on paper in the off season, the real failure was not finding a 6th starter. Lesson being, just plugging the obvious gap, even bringing in one top of the rotation starter isn't enough. Somebody is going to go down for a while on anybody's staff, and you need pitchers who can give you a chance to win in spot start roles.

If Danny would just shave and maybe do something with his hair i wouldn't have much of a problem with him. Oh, and if he won some games, too....

I'm talking about the trade 5 years ago.  Jamie Navarro and John Snyder to the Breweers for Cal Eldred and Jose Valentin.

 

How much did Navarro and Snyder do for Milwaukee?  Jack squat.

 

But Eldred and Valentin were both integral parts of the 2000 team, and Valentin has been a focal point until this season.

 

As much as Valentin has tailed off, I think it's funny to look at this trade and see how much Schueler robbed the Brewers.

Of course it was. It would have been a big steal if all the White Sox got was a half eaten 5 year old bratwurst.

In '95 Snyder was also part of a lop sided deal with the Angels. In addition to Snyder, the Sox got good miles out of Billy Simas. Jim Abbot was a never a front line starter again, while Fortugno never made it back to the bigs.

 

Baseball Reference:

John Snyder Transactions

 

June 1, 1992: Drafted by the California Angels in the 13th round of the 1992 amateur draft.

 

July 27, 1995: Traded by the California Angels with McKay Christensen, Andrew Lorraine, and Bill Simas to the Chicago White Sox for Jim Abbott and Tim Fortugno.

 

January 12, 2000: Traded by the Chicago White Sox with Jaime Navarro to the Milwaukee Brewers for Cal Eldred and Jose Valentin.

Although I somewhat agree with you that he wouldnt be of need for our ballclub, people need to respect and remember for all the great moments he gave us.

 

 

The hr in the bottom of the 9th against the cubs to win it, the hr against the marlins to win it, and the indians, etc.

 

He had many more graet moments including his 2000 season when he came out of nowhere to hit 270+ w/ 25+ hr. I mean there are few ss that can do that.

 

His great team attitude, always up on the fence cheering, never complained etc.

 

I will miss him a lot :headshake