Chisoxfn Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 What if the Sox offer up Jose Contreras in a deal. I know some people like him, but I consider him to have a "bad" contract and if you could get an effective player while freeing up some salary to land yourself one front line pitcher and then another FA starter then I think you'd have to look into that option. Could the Angels consider a Guillen for Contreras swap considering how they could definately use another starter. Or would the Orioles consider giving the Sox Julio and Hairston for Contreras, knowing that Baltimore could use pitching? I know the Sox won't do it, cause they seem to be in love with Contreras but Jose did nothing with the sox that he didn't do in New York. And that was show that he is an inconsistent pitcher. He's know different then Jon Garland except he gets paid more and is signed long term, plus he's on the wrong side of 30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 I wouldn't mind them dealing him at all, and he can take Garland with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 What if the Sox offer up Jose Contreras in a deal. I know some people like him, but I consider him to have a "bad" contract and if you could get an effective player while freeing up some salary to land yourself one front line pitcher and then another FA starter then I think you'd have to look into that option. Could the Angels consider a Guillen for Contreras swap considering how they could definately use another starter. Or would the Orioles consider giving the Sox Julio and Hairston for Contreras, knowing that Baltimore could use pitching? I know the Sox won't do it, cause they seem to be in love with Contreras but Jose did nothing with the sox that he didn't do in New York. And that was show that he is an inconsistent pitcher. He's know different then Jon Garland except he gets paid more and is signed long term, plus he's on the wrong side of 30. Another guy I think will have a big year for the sox . Anyways I think it's smarter to hold on to Jose anyways, because of his contract and his down year I don't think his trade value is that high and it would be better for the sox to hold onto him, jmo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Why the hell would Baltimore want a guy who can't beat the Red Sox, and would probably s*** his pants in Yankee stadium against the Bronx Bombers? I think Jose will do well for the Sox next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernuke Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 I would rather see Contreras traded than Garland. They are both very inconsistant but Garland is cheaper and younger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 10, 2004 Author Share Posted November 10, 2004 I'm of the approach that more good players are out on the market then usual and if the Sox can find ways to clear financial money to build a better pitching staff, then I think it would be better. I see Contreras as a major potential liability. I'd take Garland over Contreras any day of the week. If somehow the opportunity appeared, I'd dump Contreras so quick (but no one would just take his contract without giving up some contract in exchange. Alright, here's an option: - Sox deal Contreras for Jose Guillen (I really don't know if the angels would do this because of the payroll rammifactions) - Sox Sign Omar Vizquel - Sox deal Paul Konerko, Felix Diaz, and Mike Spidale to Oakland for Tim Hudson - Sox Sign Paul Wilson or Esteban Loaiza to a 1 yr 3 mill deal. - Sox Sign Troy Percival to a 4 mill deal with 2 mill in incentives (w/option year at 5 mill) Lineup: Willie Harris - 350 Omar Vizquel - 4 Carlos Lee - 8 Frank Thomas - 8 Jose Guillen - 4 Ross Gload - 500 Aaron Rowand - 1.2 Joe Crede - 750 Ben Davis - 1 Obviously the catching position isn't quite what you would want it. Total Payroll (including Everett) 33 mill. Rough estimate of course (did some rounding in my head) Pitching Staff Tim Hudson - 6 Mark Buehrle - 5 Freddy Garcia - 8 Jon Garland - 4 Paul Wilson/Elo - 3 Rotation - 26 mill Bullpen Percy - 5 mill Shingo - 2.5 Politte - 1.25 Marte - 1.25 Cotts - 500 K Adkins - 500 K Minor Leaguer - 350 11.5 (rough estimates) Total Payroll (not including bench players other then Everett) is 70.5 million. Of course this leaves the Sox with some options to actually spend a little more and maybe find a leadoff hitter via the trade front. Personally I don't think that would be too bad of a team. The lineup would be really nice if it had a leadoff hitter, but you still can't complain about a middle of the lineup with Lee/Thomas/Guillen and then Gload and Rowand just outside of that. If the Sox wanted to they could ear tag some cash and find an upgrade at catcher leaving 2nd and 3rd as the two questionmarks and I think Crede/Uribe/Harris (two of the three) should turn out just fine. I like all three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Loaiza? I don't think the Sox (and most of the fans) want him back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 I know some people are saying that they would not mind loaiza back next season, that's until he has an era in the mid 5's again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Socks Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 What if the Sox offer up Jose Contreras in a deal. I know some people like him, but I consider him to have a "bad" contract and if you could get an effective player while freeing up some salary to land yourself one front line pitcher and then another FA starter then I think you'd have to look into that option. Could the Angels consider a Guillen for Contreras swap considering how they could definately use another starter. Or would the Orioles consider giving the Sox Julio and Hairston for Contreras, knowing that Baltimore could use pitching? I know the Sox won't do it, cause they seem to be in love with Contreras but Jose did nothing with the sox that he didn't do in New York. And that was show that he is an inconsistent pitcher. He's know different then Jon Garland except he gets paid more and is signed long term, plus he's on the wrong side of 30. Jason, He's "know" different??????????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 I'm so f***IN tired of hearing about the Hairston Hard-On. We get it, you like him. Must we include him in every possible trade scenario? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 10, 2004 Author Share Posted November 10, 2004 I'm so f***IN tired of hearing about the Hairston Hard-On. We get it, you like him. Must we include him in every possible trade scenario? To be honest, I haven't really been one of the people thats all that big on Hairston. But since he's on the block and the Sox could use a leadoff hitter, I figure the name will come up plenty more. Just like the names of the Big3 and RJ will come up, although the Sox have actually been said to be interested in them in the papers. I have not seen anything saying they are interested in Hairston anytime recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 10, 2004 Author Share Posted November 10, 2004 Jason, He's "know" different??????????????? Ehhh, the grammar police and the Tommy John police are getting me tonight, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 The Sox will likely want to see what Jose does at the start of next season before deciding to deal him. But we could have another Loaiza situation were he's possibly dealt at the deadline. Some team will want to take a chance on him with the stuff he has if we don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Call this a stretch...but what would people here do if Contreras was moved to the bullpen and he was the bullpen arm we added? I know it won't happen...the Sox seem very high on him starting and potentially becoming an ace with his stuff...but say come midseason his ERA is around 5.50 and his inconsistency is killing the staff. Would trading for a decent starter and moving Contreras to the bullpen be a possibility? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 10, 2004 Author Share Posted November 10, 2004 Call this a stretch...but what would people here do if Contreras was moved to the bullpen and he was the bullpen arm we added? I know it won't happen...the Sox seem very high on him starting and potentially becoming an ace with his stuff...but say come midseason his ERA is around 5.50 and his inconsistency is killing the staff. Would trading for a decent starter and moving Contreras to the bullpen be a possibility? I'd be against it cause I think their are better things the Sox could spend 6 million on in terms of relievers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 I've been thinking that all along wite, esp. with his two pitches the sox wanted to make him thier closer at one time if I recall. But I know they wont and especially at the money they are paying him now. (he's starting and getting every penny he needs) I just don't think he can be an effective pitcher with only two major pitches in his repertoire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 I'd be against it cause I think their are better things the Sox could spend 6 million on in terms of relievers. I feel the same way for right now. I really don't think he'll end up in the pen this year...I was just basically throwing it out there. I do see Contreras ending up in some team's bullpen though within the next couple years, be it with us or with someone else. I'm not sure I see him busting out and having a real good year as a starter, but I could see him becoming a dominant reliever, sort of like Gagne. I think if we get to the postseason, having him in our bullpen will be huge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Contreras walks so many people, I just don't think you can bring him in with anyone on base. That really limits his usefulness as a reliever IMO. Maybe he's OK as a long man, but that's so not worth 6 million dollars. Also, I generally think the "can't handle pressure/choke artist" description is used way, way too often (e.g. a lot of people thought Foulke couldn't close big games). But some players do seem to perform worse under pressure, and I think Contreras might be one of them. I don't think he'd be a good closer. As for trading him, I think there's absolutley no way the Sox can get anything for him right now. He makes 6 million a year for 2 years and posted an ERA close to 6 last season. And he's not young. The Sox gambled that they were smarter than the Yankees and could turn him around, and I think they have to see it through now and hope they were right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Jose is a total f***ing enigma at this point. Hell -- he's the only guy on our staff (granted, in limited time) who put up a BETTER ERA at the Cell than he did on the road. That's just... baffling, IMHO... Anyways - we don't know what we're going to get from Jose next year. At least, I don't think I know. He could go out and dominate -- we all know he has some killer stuff, but like Jonny -- it's all between ears. I'm willing to give Jose another year with us. When he's on (meaning, when he's confident, he's got his splitter working, his fastball a' blazin) -- he is absolutely unhittable. Then again, when he's pitching like s***, he's also unhittable -- it's just, he's wild as f*** and walks everything in sight... (Wow, sorry for all of my F words in the post...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 In my opinion, Jose Contreras is a bigger question mark than Jon Garland. If both remain with the Sox, I predict Garland has a better year and move ahead of Contreras in the rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Jose is a total f***ing enigma at this point. Hell -- he's the only guy on our staff (granted, in limited time) who put up a BETTER ERA at the Cell than he did on the road. That's just... baffling, IMHO... Anyways - we don't know what we're going to get from Jose next year. At least, I don't think I know. He could go out and dominate -- we all know he has some killer stuff, but like Jonny -- it's all between ears. I'm willing to give Jose another year with us. When he's on (meaning, when he's confident, he's got his splitter working, his fastball a' blazin) -- he is absolutely unhittable. Then again, when he's pitching like s***, he's also unhittable -- it's just, he's wild as f*** and walks everything in sight... (Wow, sorry for all of my F words in the post...) FWIW...no need to apologize for the f***in swearing. So long as it's not directed at anybody on the board, it's pretty much A-OK As for the post...I agree 100% with it. Problem is I don't think Contreras will ever get away from his inconsistency. I see a guy with 2 good pitches, and then maybe a secondary pitch. He depends strictly on the fastball-splitter, combo, and when that doesn't work, he has nothing to fall back on, so he gets the s*** hit out of him. I don't see him ever getting away from being a 4.50 ERA type pitcher at his very best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Jose is a total f***ing enigma at this point. Hell -- he's the only guy on our staff (granted, in limited time) who put up a BETTER ERA at the Cell than he did on the road. That's just... baffling, IMHO... Anyways - we don't know what we're going to get from Jose next year. At least, I don't think I know. He could go out and dominate -- we all know he has some killer stuff, but like Jonny -- it's all between ears. I'm willing to give Jose another year with us. When he's on (meaning, when he's confident, he's got his splitter working, his fastball a' blazin) -- he is absolutely unhittable. Then again, when he's pitching like s***, he's also unhittable -- it's just, he's wild as f*** and walks everything in sight... (Wow, sorry for all of my F words in the post...) Just to make sure everyone is clear on this...Guy406's numbers are correct...in fact, they are probably better then one would make you believe. Overall, for the year, Jose Contreras's ERA at home was 4.76, and his ERA on the road was 6.09. The craziest thing about that is that his ERA at USCF was 4.13. That's just insane, quite frankly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 I don't see him ever getting away from being a 4.50 ERA type pitcher at his very best. Actually, I'd be pretty happy with a 4.50 ERA next year from Contreras. Still probably not worth 6 million, but at least useful (would've ranked 20th in the AL among qualifed starters last season....ERAs certianly have gotten high). And I apologize for earlier saying his ERA was close to 6 last season, it was actually 5.50. Which is of course still not good. I think it's strange that so many people seem to want to give Garland away for nothing because he hasn't pitched as well as people thought he would, he's inconsistent, and not worth whatever he'll get in arbitration. Contreras is like Garland raised to another power (more expensive, higher ERA, more inconsistent), but people still seem pretty optimisitic about him. Just for the record, I'm not a huge fan of Garland or anything. But seeing how much trouble the Sox had fiding a 5th starter with an ERA below 6 last year, I'd rather they hung on to him unless they get quality back in return (e.g. Randy Johnson). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 10, 2004 Author Share Posted November 10, 2004 I don't doubt Contreras stuff so I hope they can turn him around. I mean Weaver turned back into something solid when he went to Los Angeles. The only difference is Weaver had a past MLB experience of success. Hopefully Contreras can pan out, I just think its stupid to give 12 million (this year and next) to a guy that pretty much is an enigma. I long said if Contreras pitched good it would be a good deal, but to me its just too chancy. Trust me, the Yanks are very happy they got Elo because he was only paid this year, Contreras is under contract the next two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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