Punch and Judy Garland Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 He struggled defensively no doubt. But I think he's a better defender than he showed and would look better on another team this year. His arm is good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 I realize this is "way out there" but somehow, some way, I think there will be a few way out there moves in baseball this winter ... beyond just the obvious ones we fans think and talk about. By that are you referring to what the Sox will do, what will happen in the majors in general, or both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 September 2003: Konerko had a terrible season. He's a headcase. He's slow. He gets in extended slumps. November 2003: Sox are looking to move the inconsistent Konerko for pitching help. December 2003: Deals for Konerko left on the table. Niether team feels they are getting enough in return. January 2004: Deal still on table. February 2004: Deal finally pulled from table. "we have faith in Konerko, He will bounce back." April-September 2004: Arguably the sox most valuable player. Unarguably their most consistent player. Cheat, I am pretty consistant. I don't want him, in any month Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Ok, if it's Sexson to Baltimore then it's Delgado to the Mariners. What does that leave folks ... Arizona. They are rebuilding why would they need an 8 million dollar first baseman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 By that are you referring to what the Sox will do, what will happen in the majors in general, or both? Both IMO. On the $8 million dollar first baseman thing, they have been chasing Sexson with big $$ to keep him there, I know this is directed at another poster. It demonstrates a willingness to spend at that position. Pretty simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Both IMO. On the $8 million dollar first baseman thing, they have been chasing Sexson with big $$ to keep him there, I know this is directed at another poster. It demonstrates a willingness to spend at that position. Pretty simple. Sexton was a fan favorite, Konerko... is a stretch. because sexton is leaving this will give them the opportunity to completely rebuild. johnson will be off the books, now sexton. Time to rebuild, Plus now that they have an agent running things he knows Konerko is not worth the cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Sexton was a fan favorite, Konerko... is a stretch. because sexton is leaving this will give them the opportunity to completely rebuild. johnson will be off the books, now sexton. Time to rebuild, Plus now that they have an agent running things he knows Konerko is not worth the cash. Oh and don't give that bulls*** that konerko is from Scottsdale high school. Its crap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Oh and don't give that bulls*** that konerko is from Scottsdale high school. Its crap I thought he was a providence RI guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkokieSox Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Sexton was a fan favorite, Konerko... is a stretch. because sexton is leaving this will give them the opportunity to completely rebuild. johnson will be off the books, now sexton. Time to rebuild, Plus now that they have an agent running things he knows Konerko is not worth the cash. Fan favorite? He played a third of a season. They wanted someone to build around, and PK could serve that role as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 I thought he was a providence RI guy. in know he went to high school there and college Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Sexton was a fan favorite, Konerko... is a stretch. because sexton is leaving this will give them the opportunity to completely rebuild. johnson will be off the books, now sexton. Time to rebuild, Plus now that they have an agent running things he knows Konerko is not worth the cash. Two ways to look at it, they had a brutal year last year, just awful. Who says they can't get Konerko (or any veteran) signed to an extension. Very possible. Sexson wasn't there long enough to be a fan favorite, Konerko is not the talent Sexson is but doesn't have the bad shoulder problem. Konerko is a similar profile to Sexson in terms of being an identifiable player for the fan base. They need that big time. There is no perfect fit, I grant you that. But Konerko is as good a fit there as anywhere. It makes sense at several levels. Contrary to knee jerk logic, although I agree it would make sense for the D-Backs to rip it down to the bones, they want to be competitive. That's been in all the Arizona papers and radio out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Fan favorite? He played a third of a season. They wanted someone to build around, and PK could serve that role as well. I understand the short season. nobody should build around konerko. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Two ways to look at it, they had a brutal year last year, just awful. Who says they can't get Konerko (or any veteran) signed to an extension. Very possible. Sexson wasn't there long enough to be a fan favorite, Konerko is not the talent Sexson is but doesn't have the bad shoulder problem. Konerko is a similar profile to Sexson in terms of being an identifiable player for the fan base. They need that big time. There is no perfect fit, I grant you that. But Konerko is as good a fit there as anywhere. It makes sense at several levels. Contrary to knee jerk logic, although I agree it would make sense for the D-Backs to rip it down to the bones, they want to be competitive. That's been in all the Arizona papers and radio out there. hey let me be clear, I want konerko gone, I jsut don't think it makes sense for the Diamond backs to do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 hey let me be clear, I want konerko gone, I jsut don't think it makes sense for the Diamond backs to do this. Fact is, they've said they fully intend to be competitive and they want to add a few quality veterans. I tend to agree with you it may be smartest for them to burn it down and start from scratch. However, they're saying they're not going to do that. Based on that, and the fact they are/were dangling big coin in front of Sexson, Konerko is a fit. Curious who Konerko's agent is. Edit: Doesn't matter what my logic is, or your logic, or any fan's logic. What does matter is what the D-Backs said they want to do, and ultimately how they proceed. A 51 win season doesn't normally mean a team strips things down further. Strange situation out there ($$$) but they plan on being competitive which is the right move for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Fact is, they've said they fully intend to be competitive and they want to add a few quality veterans. I tend to agree with you it may be smartest for them to burn it down and start from scratch. However, they're saying they're not going to do that. Based on that, and the fact they are/were dangling big coin in front of Sexson, Konerko is a fit. Curious who Konerko's agent is. Edit: Doesn't matter what my logic is, or your logic, or any fan's logic. What does matter is what the D-Backs said they want to do, and ultimately how they proceed. A 51 win season doesn't normally mean a team strips things down further. Strange situation out there ($$$) but they plan on being competitive which is the right move for them. The D-Backs are in a strange situation. Most logic would indicate they should rebuild around their young players to make a push in the next few years. I found these points about them in a recent article; Jerry Colangelo was removed as chief executive officer. Wally Backman was ousted almost immediately as manager. Consider them lucky in one sense: Each got to jump off the S.S. Arizona. As bad as the Diamondbacks were last season -- their 51-111 record was the worst by a National League team since 1965 -- next season they could be even worse. Impossible? Perhaps. But Hall of Fame lefthander Randy Johnson is a goner. Free-agent first baseman Richie Sexson is a goner. And free-agent center fielder Steve Finley isn't coming back. Even though Diamondbacks executives vow to compete -- perhaps fearing their attendance will crater if they suggest otherwise -- the truth is they have no chance. The Diamondbacks need to start over, just as the Indians, Twins and A's did after hitting rock bottom. Their strategy should be to get the best young players they can for Johnson, use the Sexson money on impact draft picks and build a contender for 2006 or '07, when their top prospects will be ready to make an impact. Naturally, they're planning just the opposite. Diamondbacks general partner Ken Kendrick notes -- correctly -- that the team will save about $25 million if Johnson and Sexson depart, creating enviable flexibility in a buyer's market. Kendrick also notes -- correctly, again -- that the Padres contended in the N.L. West last season after finishing with the worst record in the National League the year before. Injuries wrecked the Diamondbacks' chances, and general manager Joe Garagiola is hellbent on improving the team's defense, which was one of the worst in the majors. But which players will take the D-backs' money? Ask the Orioles, Mets and other misguided clubs of recent vintage -- overpaying mediocre veterans only impedes progress. This process isn't easy. Arizona's home attendance has declined from 3.2 million to 2.8 million to 2.5 million over the past three seasons. A continued decline will further compromise the franchise as its deferred payments to former players come due. Fans spoiled by the 2001 World Series title probably will not want to see a team full of Luis Terreros and Koyie Hills, especially when the Diamondbacks have rushed too many youngsters to the majors, retarding their development. Strong leadership is required, but the team's new ownership is full of novices, including the new CEO, former agent Jeff Moorad. Good baseball men -- assistant G.M. Sandy Johnson, third base coach Al Pedrique -- are bolting the organization. Good players soon will follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 The D-Backs are in a strange situation. Most logic would indicate they should rebuild around their young players to make a push in the next few years. I found these points about them in a recent article; Thanks I totally agree, Jim, your serve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 I can see the D-Backs having an interest in an $8million 1b for the simple reason he'll help them be somewhat competitive this year, then they can let him go the free agent route. The fact he's under contract for only one year does give him a certain amount of value in and of itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted November 24, 2004 Author Share Posted November 24, 2004 I've been away so a few observations: 1] I agree w/ Quickman. The sox are a 3rd place team as it stands now. With Cle. and Minn. having young, exciting talent, and the sox look like they're aging fast, they can't afford to wait too long for things to shake themselves out. It's even more imperative that KW be more aggressive pursuing the guys who will help us surpass both Cle. and Minn. 2] A trade of PK alone won't make the Sox playoff contenders. Teams like the NYY, NYM, Sea. WA, don't have guys who would put us over the talent level of Cle. and Minn. The "best" scenario out there would have the sox getting RJ for PK and Garland. AZ would be fools to pass this up, unless a team like Ana. throws a lot of young guys at them. Yet even getting RJ is a stop gap plan, that doesn't solve the poor lineup the Sox have [too few OBP guys, no leadoff hitter, holes at C, RF, questions at all the IF spots] 3] There are few scenarios where the sox only trade Pk and Garland [and sign a FA or two] that would put the sox near the top of the AL central, let alone be in the position to win the world series. A wildcard should also be available via trade, that could get the sox young exciting talent with leadership abilities to build around. the only guy on the Sox with the value to be a "wildcard" is Carlos Lee. Call me crazy, but the Sox just replacing Jose V, Garland and Pk [and replacing them w/ guys slightly different than them--Uribe and Gload, which is a step down let's face it; even if the sox got RJ, he'd only throw every 5th day--the lineup is the biggest part of the sox in need of an overhaul], while losing Maggs, doesn't give me a whole lot of confidence heading into the season. 4] the trade market is slow now, with teams trying to fill spots via free agency. So it puts the sox in a precarious position, having to sit by while potential trading partners fill their needs by signings, while they HAVE to make big changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Thanks I totally agree, Jim, your serve. See what was written in previous post: "Edit: Doesn't matter what my logic is, or your logic, or any fan's logic. What does matter is what the D-Backs said they want to do, and ultimately how they proceed. A 51 win season doesn't normally mean a team strips things down further. Strange situation out there ($$$) but they plan on being competitive which is the right move for them." Columnists and fans may think one way, then there's reality. It's all about what the Diamondbacks are going to do ... not what we think they should do. All I know is, if they're willing to throw big money at Sexson, Konerko going to Arizona is well within the realm of possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Diamondbacks general partner Ken Kendrick notes -- correctly -- that the team will save about $25 million if Johnson and Sexson depart, creating enviable flexibility in a buyer's market. Kendrick also notes -- correctly, again -- that the Padres contended in the N.L. West last season after finishing with the worst record in the National League the year before. I have a real problem with this paragraph. A buyers market? Omar Vizquel got a 3 year deal, Christian Guzman got $17 million, Vinny Castilla got $6 mil+, and Damian Miller got 3 years at almost $9 million.... I would hardly call this a buyers market right now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 See what was written in previous post: "Edit: Doesn't matter what my logic is, or your logic, or any fan's logic. What does matter is what the D-Backs said they want to do, and ultimately how they proceed. A 51 win season doesn't normally mean a team strips things down further. Strange situation out there ($$$) but they plan on being competitive which is the right move for them." Columnists and fans may think one way, then there's reality. It's all about what the Diamondbacks are going to do ... not what we think they should do. All I know is, if they're willing to throw big money at Sexson, Konerko going to Arizona is well within the realm of possibility. Jim, Competitive or not AZ will be cutting payroll for the next two years. Too me thats rebuilding. They owe a ton of cash and need to cut payroll over the next two years. they are totally rebuilding. That's why new management. Hillenbrand will also leave soon. We will argue this and I hope konerko does leave. You maybe right but it just doesn't seem to fit. I would never build around Konerko, but stranger things have happened. They are a complexed group over there. They don't know whether they are coming or going. If I were general manager I would bite the bullet for two years, stack up on potential major league players and rebuild the fanbase around those guys. I would not take konerko for one year in a Randy Johnson trade but would ask for garland and 2 top prospects. In fact anything less then 3 young and upcoming players would be unacceptable. i would then trade Hillenbrand and receive another prospect. Then I would wait and let the free agent folks sift through the players and pick up a few veterans that are left and sign them to one year cheap deals, to fill a few holes. But I am just a slug trying to convince another slug about baseball matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 FWIW Arizona will not trade for Konerko unless they can get him signed to an extension ASAP when they trade for him. It's like the Freddy Garcia situation over there. And yes, the D-Backs do need a slugger, Luis Gonzalez is getting older, and if they do move Hillenbrand, they won't have many RBI producers in the middle of that lineup at all. It looks like a RJ to the Yanks trade with Vazquez possibly heading to Arizona could be going down, so maybe the Sox could get involved as a 3rd team and try to get a Vazquez for Konerko swap maybe, as this has been mooted with Texas with Soriano headed to Arizona. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 If Arizona determines that they could turn around and move Konerko for a couple of kids they like, they could accept him i8n a deal. There are a variety of possibilities and scenarios that could make a trade happen when it doesn't look like things match up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Jim and quick, While i agree with both of you, there are two sides. If your team isn't competitive at all, you don't put butts in the seats. So, it doesn't matter how much payroll you cut, you still aren't paying those debts. i think that's why Joe G. Jr. was so adamant about trying to keep RJ and Sexson (well, that and to up RJ's trade value). He needs to have some sort of draw for people to buy tickets and concessions. No fans, no money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 thanks for the revelation. unfortunatly we maybe stuck with konerko this year. Yeah, isint it awful being "stuck" with a guy who hit 41 HRs and drove in 117 runs last season. :rolly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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