JUGGERNAUT Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 You guys are funny. The NY press reports Garland+Koney+Marte for Vazquez & you whittle that down to Koney for Vazquez. That's not going to happen. Right now I think we will be stronger in pitching & defense. Provided they remain strong & healthy I see 3 15 game winners in Buerhle, Garcia, & Contreras. I just have a feeling based on how he pitched for the CWS last year that Contreras is going to reach the 15 win mark. So that gives us 45 wins. Garland is a sure bet to improve on 2004. It was his first winning season, so I think 14 wins are a real possibility. That gives us 59 wins. We so suck at 5th starters but I think Grili & Schow give us our best bet for at least 11 wins. So that gives us 70 wins. The BP will be much improved & I think can get us 10-20 wins. That puts the team in the 80-90 win range again. Ozzie is right when he says the biggest factor in W&L's is pitching & defense. Basically by improving p&d this team is structured to avg about the same number of wins as it did with Maggs+Lee. That's why they were expendable. Whether the CWS wins the division will depend on the following: Will they get O Perez & drive the expected starter's win totals to 74? O Perez has the strong numbers to suggest 15 wins in the AL behind a solid offense. The SOX should still rank in the upper 1/2 of the AL in offense. If your expected win total from your rotation is over 70, then you are expected to be a playoff team. It's expected that the strength of your bullpen & lineup should get you the addition 20-25 wins you need to make the playoffs. Will they get Miguel Cairo as a utility player? The guy has consistent numbers that help strengthen a teams ability to retain a 750+ OPS month after month. It's very hard to make or win in the playoffs without that. Will they sign a RFA C? Todd Greene of COL will come much cheaper than AJP. Will Crede live up to expectations? He's crucial in a lineup that is no anchored by 3B,C,2B. One of the 3 positions must produce for the SOX to win the division. If the team was willing to spend 21/3 for Clement then it better be ready to spend what is needed to get O Perez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 You guys are funny. The NY press reports Garland+Koney+Marte for Vazquez & you whittle that down to Koney for Vazquez. That's not going to happen. Right now I think we will be stronger in pitching & defense. Provided they remain strong & healthy I see 3 15 game winners in Buerhle, Garcia, & Contreras. I just have a feeling based on how he pitched for the CWS last year that Contreras is going to reach the 15 win mark. So that gives us 45 wins. Garland is a sure bet to improve on 2004. It was his first winning season, so I think 14 wins are a real possibility. That gives us 59 wins. We so suck at 5th starters but I think Grili & Schow give us our best bet for at least 11 wins. So that gives us 70 wins. The BP will be much improved & I think can get us 10-20 wins. That puts the team in the 80-90 win range again. Ozzie is right when he says the biggest factor in W&L's is pitching & defense. Basically by improving p&d this team is structured to avg about the same number of wins as it did with Maggs+Lee. That's why they were expendable. Whether the CWS wins the division will depend on the following: Will they get O Perez & drive the expected starter's win totals to 74? O Perez has the strong numbers to suggest 15 wins in the AL behind a solid offense. The SOX should still rank in the upper 1/2 of the AL in offense. If your expected win total from your rotation is over 70, then you are expected to be a playoff team. It's expected that the strength of your bullpen & lineup should get you the addition 20-25 wins you need to make the playoffs. Will they get Miguel Cairo as a utility player? The guy has consistent numbers that help strengthen a teams ability to retain a 750+ OPS month after month. It's very hard to make or win in the playoffs without that. Will they sign a RFA C? Todd Greene of COL will come much cheaper than AJP. Will Crede live up to expectations? He's crucial in a lineup that is no anchored by 3B,C,2B. One of the 3 positions must produce for the SOX to win the division. If the team was willing to spend 21/3 for Clement then it better be ready to spend what is needed to get O Perez. nice breakdown... and yeah i agree completely. One good acquisition by KW could make this team a real contender. Perez would be a great way to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISF Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 We already have Cairo on the roster. His name is Willie Harris. I simply put forward a proposition for filling holes, I did not say it was a given the other teams would agree. LA will not take on salary for Vazquez if they complete the RJ deal, they'll be moving Vazquez to clear salary for Drew or Beltran. And despite Reddy's feelings, I highly doubt Texas sees Garland as equal compensation for the best 1B prospect in the AL. However, IF we could make those 4 moves, I would do them in a heartbeat. We would be as good as anybody rotation wise, and our lineup would still have enough pop to score some runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 We already have Cairo on the roster. His name is Willie Harris. Except that Cairo excels against lefties, where Willie is worthless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 Ok heres a ? for all of you Garland bashers... If he's already at this stage in his career twice the pitcher Kris Benson is... Has already had a much better career then Kris Benson has... (Kris wishes he could put up 3 back to back 12 win seasons in a hitters park) He's freaking 5 years younger this Kris Benson... Yet Jon is worth nothing and Kris is worth a multi year deal... Stop underestimating Jon's value, most of the GM's in baseball would love to have this guy in the 3 spot in their rotation (Especially in the national league where this guy would have an ERA in the freaking 3's) I'm sick of these lets try to get a bag of balls for him posts. We sure as hell can't replace him for 3.5 mil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 19, 2004 Author Share Posted December 19, 2004 You said "but trading Lee for Podsednick was a complete failure." How so? The season hasn't even played out yet, and KW hasn't used the money on somebody...yet. If Pods has a .370 OBP plus 100+ SB, will it still be "a complete failure?" i never mention that pods will be a complete failure. here is the time to get a player or several players in the fa market and so far he only got dye and hermanson. when sprin training gets closer, most if not all the fa's are going to get signed. if kw doesn't move and make offer to get some help then the offseason is a waste, and i do mean a waste. if you think that getting players via a trade is what kw is going to do, then expect one sided trades, has he been in most of these past trades. are you serious that you are going to wait and see that he is going to bring in players to help??? at what cost??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 19, 2004 Author Share Posted December 19, 2004 42 ABs isn't much time to prove anything. Perhaps the fact he is 22 has something to do with that. Hitting .310 with 11 HRs and 84 RBIs at Oklahoma last year isn't impressive? Guess all of our prospects suck. Anderson couldn't sniff that at AA, much less AAA. Don't need Garland if we have Vazquez and Perez. the santa pict is one of the coolest pict i have seen. very funny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISF Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 Ok heres a ? for all of you Garland bashers... If he's already at this stage in his career twice the pitcher Kris Benson is... Has already had a much better career then Kris Benson has... (Kris wishes he could put up 3 back to back 12 win seasons in a hitters park) He's freaking 5 years younger this Kris Benson... Yet Jon is worth nothing and Kris is worth a multi year deal... Stop underestimating Jon's value, most of the GM's in baseball would love to have this guy in the 3 spot in their rotation (Especially in the national league where this guy would have an ERA in the freaking 3's) I'm sick of these lets try to get a bag of balls for him posts. We sure as hell can't replace him for 3.5 mil. I don't remember anyone saying Benson was worth two peanuts. Anybody here want Benson? Anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 I give KW a C. I like the Dye and Hermanson signings, but trading Lee for Podsednick was a complete failure. However, if he signs Pierzynski to upgrade C, and gets us Perez for the rotation, I will happily bump his grade up to B. If he signs both AJ and Odalis he gets an A- in my book. He would have addressed every team need except for the middle infield situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 the sox still need a 5th starter, shortstop, second basemen, third basemen, and a catcher. why would kenny make that trade and not get a fifth starter???? if they pocket that money then we are doomed. remember our record last year in the fifth starter spot. this is no joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 the sox still need a 5th starter, shortstop, second basemen, third basemen, and a catcher. why would kenny make that trade and not get a fifth starter???? if they pocket that money then we are doomed. remember our record last year in the fifth starter spot. this is no joke. Thirdbase - Like it or not, Crede will be your opening day 3B-man. Shortstop - What are you talking about? Uribe... Awesome range, awesome arm, plus a damn good OPS at a good price. Secondbase - Harris was damn good against righties last year, we just need someone who can hit lefties to platoon with Harris (Cairo). Catcher - Pierzynski will be pursued, and if we don't get him, it will be Davis/Burke behind the plate. Definitely agree with you here, though. Fifth starter - Definitely gotta find another competent starter without losing one (Garland). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 I don't remember anyone saying Benson was worth two peanuts. Anybody here want Benson? Anyone? My point is that with the market there is for crappy pitchers like Benson and mediocore pitchers like Clement and Wright then their is a market for a guy like Garland who is 24 and puts consistant numbers year after year in a hitters park no less. Yet the reason he has no value is that KW and sox fans seem anxious to want to get rid of him because he's not putting up #2 starter numbers. I mean who cares that he's more affordable and puts up better numbers then almost every other #4 starter in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 CBSSL updated their list of guys who declined arbitration. http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/transactions/playermovement/NL http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/transactions/playermovement/AL Some interesting names: BOS: Astacio, Lowe, McCarty, Reese, Varitek NYY: El-Duque (Hernandez), Sierra TOR: Zaun © CHC: Hollandsworth (OF) COL: Greene ©, Wright FLA: Ishmael Valdez HOU: Beltran LAD: W Alvarez, Mayne©, O Perez PHI: Glanville (OF), Either Greene or Zaun would be a big upgrade at C for the CWS. Reese is certainly an option at 2B, & W Alvarez looks intriguing as well. I'd have to believe all of them can fit under the CWS payroll budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-Pod Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 get A.J and Odalis and the offseason is complete. :fthecubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 W Alvarez is out of the picture. He resigned a 2 yr deal w LAD on Mon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 get A.J and Odalis and the offseason is complete. :fthecubs AJ was put on waivers 12/14/04 & released as a non-tendered FA the next day. Zaun, AJ, or Greene would help the CWS improve. I think AJ is going to cost the most. There are a LOT of SP available so KW doesn't have any excuse for not getting a 3/4/5 starter cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Well now that we blew 1M on this waste of space I guess we should look at the numbers & see if there is any hope. Ben- (I'm worse than Karko) Davis: Pro's: switch hitter, good fastball hitter. Strong arm catcher (32% nab rate), better than avg pitch-blocker. Con's: does his best hitting early in count. If he falls behind, almost an automatic out. Below average runner. 02 OPS avg's: 548, 684, 477, 833, 1061, 746 03 OPS avg's: 835, 805, 775, 741, 320, 424 04 OPS avg's: 327, 000, 541, 935, 396, 619 Hope? About 1/2 of his ab's last yr came in July where he posted a 935 OPS. Think of it this way. Before the signing the only C on the SOX roster with ML experience was Burke. At least this guy as 3 yrs experience as a backup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 The rotation looks a little better now. SP: Buehrle, Garcia, Contreras, Hernandez, Garland : experienced RP: Polite, Luis, Hermannson, Adkins, Marte, Shingo : experienced LU1-6: Pods, Uribe, Thomas, Koney, Dye, Rowand : measures up well against any 1-6 in ALC. LU7-9: Crede, Davis, Harris : uggh. Possibly the worst 7-9 in the ALC. BP: Burke, Gload, Sweeney, Borchy, ? The biggest holes now are 7-9 & bench. Scratch T Greene off the list. He came to terms w COL last night. That leaves Zaun & AJ. If KW gets one of them & either Cairo, Eckstein, or Cora then I'll say he's done a reasonable job this off-season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 The Herald reports that with the LAD & TEX seeking AJ as well it's unlikely he will sign with the CWS. I guess that leaves Zaun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 The Herald reports that with the LAD & TEX seeking AJ as well it's unlikely he will sign with the CWS. I guess that leaves Zaun. I think that KW has already made it clear that AJ did not fit with the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Garland does not equal Wells. Garland is a decent 4th starter at this point still with potential to become a 2 or 3. Wells is, in my book, not equivilant to Garland and Garland is definitely worth more than a "maybe" prospect Ur on crack then if you think Garland is better than Wells. Losing wells is just great KW f*** up..Wells would be a soild 3 on this team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Ur on crack then if you think Garland is better than Wells. Losing wells is just great KW f*** up..Wells would be a soild 3 on this team What the f*** are you talking about?!?! Garland had damn near comparable numbers. Garland pitches in a f***ing bandbox AND in the AL. Just quit now before you make a complete fool of yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 What the f*** are you talking about?!?! Garland had damn near comparable numbers. Garland pitches in a f***ing bandbox AND in the AL. Just quit now before you make a complete fool of yourself. How many years have Garland had with an ERA under 4? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Do you not realize he pitches in the 2nd greatest hitters park and the AL? While Kip pitches in a top 10 pitchers park and the NL? Kip Wells ERA+ last year=91 Jon Garlands ERA+ last year=100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Do you not realize he pitches in the 2nd greatest hitters park and the AL? While Kip pitches in a top 10 pitchers park and the NL? Kip Wells ERA+ last year=91 Jon Garlands ERA+ last year=100 Those numbers don't matter, acording to some here, I mean I compare OC and Uribe, but no one took into account that Uribe has been in 2 hitters park as home his entre carrer..While OC played in Montreal. So again. How many years has Jon ERA been under 3 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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