January 18, 200521 yr QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jan 18, 2005 -> 05:06 PM) In other news, Roger Clemens has just retired. retire b****
January 18, 200521 yr Can you blame the guy? I mean he has done it all. This is just him putting a figure that he knows the Astros would never jump on.
January 19, 200521 yr IMO, this is just saying this is what it will take for him to come back to Houston. In my mind he wants to hang them up.
January 19, 200521 yr QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jan 18, 2005 -> 06:03 PM) $22 million for one year or two? Actually, it's 1 million a year for 22 years. He's in really good shape.
January 19, 200521 yr QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Jan 18, 2005 -> 06:08 PM) 22 per, 1 year Hmm how do I say this nicely? Oh wait, I don't :fyou :fyou :fyou
January 19, 200521 yr The Astros are so screwed. They've lost Beltran, Kent, Miller and will be without Berkman for a while. Now this outrageous demand from Clemens? I'd tell Roger to go f*** himself. The Stros aren't winning s*** anyway.
January 19, 200521 yr Hey, why not try for $22M. Its a win-win. If they give it to him, he just cashed in at how old!? and if they don't, he hangs it up. Worth a shot. Clemens was the best pitcher I've ever seen; it was a pleasure watching his career. Top 10 pitcher of all time? Let the debate begin.
January 19, 200521 yr Author QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Jan 18, 2005 -> 06:17 PM) Top 10 pitcher of all time? Let the debate begin. Yes. Well maybe I shouldn't be so sure...I'd have to do some research.
January 19, 200521 yr QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Jan 18, 2005 -> 06:17 PM) Hey, why not try for $22M. Its a win-win. If they give it to him, he just cashed in at how old!? and if they don't, he hangs it up. Worth a shot. Clemens was the best pitcher I've ever seen; it was a pleasure watching his career. Top 10 pitcher of all time? Let the debate begin. First ballot HOFer, no doubt. Top 10 all time? No way in hell.
January 19, 200521 yr he is basically saying he wants to retire by this demand, he must think hou is desperate.
January 19, 200521 yr QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jan 18, 2005 -> 06:18 PM) First ballot HOFer, no doubt. Top 10 all time? No way in hell. All right I'll bite... Top ten without Clemens?
January 19, 200521 yr QUOTE(RibbieRubarb @ Jan 18, 2005 -> 06:31 PM) All right I'll bite... Top ten without Clemens? Gimmie a few to look a little closer.
January 19, 200521 yr Author As I look at the numbers It's really hard to compare the eras. Clemens is 2nd in K's and 9th in W's, but not on the map in ERA. It's really hard to compare.
January 19, 200521 yr QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jan 18, 2005 -> 06:33 PM) Gimmie a few to look a little closer. Sure thing...
January 19, 200521 yr QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jan 18, 2005 -> 06:33 PM) Gimmie a few to look a little closer. Off the top of my head... Nolan Ryan Cy Young Sandy Kofax Christy Mathewson Walter Johnson Warren Spahn Steve Carlton Tom Seaver Randy Johnson I would have also put Pedro and Greg Maddux ahead of him from this generation on a career basis.
January 19, 200521 yr Author QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jan 18, 2005 -> 06:43 PM) Randy Johnson That's very debatable. Clemens=more wins, K's RJ=better ERA
January 19, 200521 yr QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Jan 18, 2005 -> 06:45 PM) That's very debatable. Clemens=more wins, K's RJ=better ERA It is debatable. Johnson has pitched on a lot of bad teams, something that Rocket never really has done. But that list is just MHO really.
January 19, 200521 yr QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Jan 19, 2005 -> 12:36 AM) As I look at the numbers It's really hard to compare the eras. Clemens is 2nd in K's and 9th in W's, but not on the map in ERA. It's really hard to compare. All time, though? Runs scored have gone up a lot, and he pitched for most of his career in the AL. Can't really compare him straight era. Looking at era+, he's tied for 12th all-time, and looking at the names ahead of him, I'd definitely move a few people below him based on other criteria. Off the top of my head I'd say he's definitely top-10, but I'd need to do some more work to back that up.
January 19, 200521 yr Author Yeah, I can defintley see where your coming from, I'll probably come up with a list later on.
January 19, 200521 yr Author QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jan 18, 2005 -> 06:48 PM) All time, though? Runs scored have gone up a lot, and he pitched for most of his career in the AL. Can't really compare him straight era. Looking at era+, he's tied for 12th all-time, and looking at the names ahead of him, I'd definitely move a few people below him based on other criteria. Off the top of my head I'd say he's definitely top-10, but I'd need to do some more work to back that up. That's why I was saying it's hard to compare all the SP's from different eras.
January 19, 200521 yr QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Jan 18, 2005 -> 06:49 PM) That's why I was saying it's hard to compare all the SP's from different eras. Its impossible to do numbers comparisions based on different generations. I look more at how a pitcher stands out of his own group. That's why Greg Maddux is on my list. His numbers are so much better than just about anyone of this generation.
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