BridgeportHeather Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 In the early stages of last season, nobody was able to figure out Shingo. But, as the season progressed and players were seeing him the second, third, and fourth times around, it didn't seem Shingo had the same "command" that he had in the first half of the season. No knock on Shingo's season last year; he had a great year. But he clearly had a better opening than closing half, which leads to my question. Now that hitters have had an entire season of facing him, will he decline in effectiveness, or will he still baffle hitters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 QUOTE(Heather Lee @ Feb 11, 2005 -> 01:20 AM) In the early stages of last season, nobody was able to figure out Shingo. But, as the season progressed and players were seeing him the second, third, and fourth times around, it didn't seem Shingo had the same "command" that he had in the first half of the season. No knock on Shingo's season last year; he had a great year. But he clearly had a better opening than closing half, which leads to my question. Now that hitters have had an entire season of facing him, will he decline in effectiveness, or will he still baffle hitters? First of all, I think the key to Shingo having success in '05 is how Ozzie uses him. He should be used for 1 inning or less every time out. Also, if the Sox have a 3 run lead, Ozzie should let one of the other guys get the save and rest Shingo, unless it's a game they absolutely have to win. For example, one to break a losing streak or a game vs. the Twins. Ozzie will have to protect Shingo or he'll be worn down by year's end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Shingo only had one bad month (August.) He was lights out in September 1.54 ERA, 1.11 WHIP, 11:4 K/BB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 I think it's more of Shingo getting tired, than hitters figuring him out. Esp. when he had to throw more than an inning, Shingo lost his control, didn't hit his spots and then hitters got ahead in the count and hit him. I remember seeing the stats of how well Shingo did throwing less than 15 pitches, and how he didn't do nearly as well after 15 pitches. Another thing to keep in mind was the longer season in MLB. In Japan they play less games, and the added games he threw could also have affected Shingo. He could have "hit the wall" in August like some rookies are said to do esp in basketball, with the added games from college to the pros. I too agree that the 2005 pen was built to keep Shingo fresh, so he can keep his pitch count and innings down, and only go 1 inning at a time per save. He should be fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 QUOTE(beck72 @ Feb 11, 2005 -> 05:32 AM) I think it's more of Shingo getting tired, than hitters figuring him out. Esp. when he had to throw more than an inning, Shingo lost his control, didn't hit his spots and then hitters got ahead in the count and hit him. I remember seeing the stats of how well Shingo did throwing less than 15 pitches, and how he didn't do nearly as well after 15 pitches. Another thing to keep in mind was the longer season in MLB. In Japan they play less games, and the added games he threw could also have affected Shingo. He could have "hit the wall" in August like some rookies are said to do esp in basketball, with the added games from college to the pros. I too agree that the 2005 pen was built to keep Shingo fresh, so he can keep his pitch count and innings down, and only go 1 inning at a time per save. He should be fine Couldn't agree more. Shingo only got hit when he worked more than one inning. With all of the adds in the pen, Takatsu will be fine. I would expect him to stay in the 2.50-3.00 era range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Here are some numbers fr. ESPN: pitches 1-15 [156 ab's]-- .154/.214/.224 ; 11bb, 41 SO; 2 hr's; 4 rbi pitches 16-30 [61 ab's]-- .262/.365/.475 ; 10 bb, 7 so's; 4 hr's; 14 rbi He's lights out when facing a few batters, average when going longer. Remedy--keep him fresh, only face a few hitters, have the ohter guys in the pen work more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 I guess we all agree that Shingo is a one inning pitcher. Someone email Ozzie and make sure he gets the word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 QUOTE(YASNY @ Feb 11, 2005 -> 08:22 AM) I guess we all agree that Shingo is a one inning pitcher. Someone email Ozzie and make sure he gets the word. I think Oz knew it too, but with the pen they had last year, he really didn't have any choices. With all of the problems he really had to try to use him when he didn't want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Feb 11, 2005 -> 08:47 AM) I think Oz knew it too, but with the pen they had last year, he really didn't have any choices. With all of the problems he really had to try to use him when he didn't want to. Good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Feb 11, 2005 -> 02:47 PM) I think Oz knew it too, but with the pen they had last year, he really didn't have any choices. With all of the problems he really had to try to use him when he didn't want to. Very true. Ozzie had to bring in Shingo out of necessity. With the build up of the pen in the offseason, Ozzie and KW got the message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaseballNick Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 I'm hopefull, but not entirely confident. We have depth, so if Shingo struggles we have 4 other options in Damaso, Cliff, Viz, and Dustin. Kudos to Kenny for being prepared just incase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 I don't think Shingo will be as good as he was in the middle of the season. But he'll still be pretty good this year. There are still going to be a lot of players that haven't seen him play yet, or can't figure him out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossarian Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Feb 11, 2005 -> 02:14 AM) Shingo only had one bad month (August.) He was lights out in September 1.54 ERA, 1.11 WHIP, 11:4 K/BB. Absolutely right. He did not fade in the end, he came back strong. Hopefully with more depth Ozzie will be able to spot him in the most advantageous situations. I'll be very disappointed if the bullpen is not significantly improved in 05. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigHurt35 Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 QUOTE(YASNY @ Feb 11, 2005 -> 08:22 AM) I guess we all agree that Shingo is a one inning pitcher. Someone email Ozzie and make sure he gets the word. Yeah, he certainly was less effective last year after one IP. Given that KW bolstered the 'pen this offseason, that shouldn't really be a factor this season. It should be interesting to see how things play out for Shingo in '05. He was incredible last year, but I'm wondering how much of that had to do with his rather unique style of pitching and if AL hitters will be better prepared this time around. He's also 36 now and age may come into play sometime soon. That said, I'll be rooting for him to put up 40 saves and take us to the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 I agree as well. The Sox now have Marte & Vizc to handle LH's & Politte & Herm to handle RH's. There's no reason to pitch Shingo more than 1 inning unless we go into extra innings. I suspect Adkins will be used only in mop ups, land slides or early exits. That's something Oz & KW will have to decide. How many extra inning games do they expect this year & whether that warrants a 12th arm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 even if you have seen him 6, 7, 8 times, the difference in speed of the pitches that he throws are hard for anyone to hit. His differentiation of speed keeps hitters off balance and it is very difficult to hit him hard. I think he will be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigHurt35 Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(RockRaines @ Feb 11, 2005 -> 01:52 PM) even if you have seen him 6, 7, 8 times, the difference in speed of the pitches that he throws are hard for anyone to hit. His differentiation of speed keeps hitters off balance and it is very difficult to hit him hard. I think he will be fine. That's true, although he'll live and die by his command with that style of pitching. If he falls behind a hitter and needs to throw a fastball over the plate, he's in trouble. More "traditional" closers (like Percival, for example) can reach back and throw a 97 MPH fastball over the plate without fear of it being jacked out of the park. While I don't necessarily think that he'll be lights-out again this year, I agree that he'll be an effective closer. Edited February 11, 2005 by TheBigHurt35 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitewashed in '05 Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 QUOTE(TheBigHurt35 @ Feb 11, 2005 -> 01:56 PM) That's true, although he'll live and die by his command with that style of pitching. If he falls behind a hitter and needs to throw a fastball over the plate, he's in trouble. More "traditional" closers (like Percival, for example) can reach back and throw a 97 MPH fastball over the plate without fear of it being jacked out of the park. While I don't necessarily think that he'll be lights-out again this year, I agree that he'll be an effective closer. It doesn't matter what speed you can throw as long as you can get the hitter out. Foulke's out pitch is an offspeed change up and hes fine, that goes to prove he can beat the hitter all he has to do is be wise and don't throw a cookie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehard chisox 1427 Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Bottem line: DO NOT use him for more than one inning. I don't know what it is, but when he pitches more, even if its 1/3 more, he gets rocked. And come on people, dont tell me that he gets tired, hes been in the business for a long time, his arm is conditioned to it. Its not fatigue, but there is there something. Besides, half of his pitches are under 75 MPH!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackSox8 Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Shingo should be fine if he isn't put in during the eighth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 I agree with all of you that say he will be fine. IMO as long as he can keep his command and get ahead of the hitters he'll be fine. The only time he had any trouble was when he was missing with his breaking balls and had to use the fastball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 I wouldn’t be surprised if Shingo ends up with an ERA under 2. He did good last year knowing that it was his first year here in the MLB. So he was practically a rookie. He’s more comfortable now that we have Dustin Hermanson and Luis Vuscaino in that bullpen. Just let him pitch 1 inning. I’m pretty sure Ozzie knows that by now. And if he doesn’t than I’m pretty sure KW will make sure he knows. Here’s hoping Shingo has a successful year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitewashed in '05 Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Hey Rock Raines I see we have the same taste in females. Great picture you have of her by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotoh00 Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Anyone ever seem him intentionally walk someone with a runner on third? He floats the ball to his catcher sometimes and when he did that once in Japan the runner stole home on him. He's a stubborn guys and still does it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBetsy Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 QUOTE(WilliamTell @ Feb 11, 2005 -> 12:58 PM) I don't think Shingo will be as good as he was in the middle of the season. But he'll still be pretty good this year. There are still going to be a lot of players that haven't seen him play yet, or can't figure him out. By definition, he can't be as good. Shingo actually retired more than 27 batters in a row over like 8 appearances in the middle of the year - he threw the equivalent of a perfect game! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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