BrandoFan Posted April 10, 2003 Author Share Posted April 10, 2003 Jon Rauch at his best is two levels below Mark Prior and that may be generous. Does anyone know of labrum tears are 100% recoverable? Cause if they are Rauch may surprise quite a few people before it's all said and done. Beckett? Throws too hard, will probably blow his arm in a few years. Poise- and control-wise ain't in the same league as Prior. Overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 I don't see why people think Rauch is a sure fire future HOF'er. He has potential to be a good pitcher. But that is a long way from being a solid major league pitcher. I think some people are so focused on his height, thinking he's the mirror image of the Big Unit. He's not. He doesn't have Johnson's fastball. Not even close to the intimidation factor that Johnson has. As for Prior, now this is a kid with real potential. Can be a great one. But, let's make him prove it before he's enshrined in Cooperstown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 10, 2003 Author Share Posted April 10, 2003 I don't see why people think Rauch is a sure fire future HOF'er Once again: being very high on (healthy) Rauch is not the same as printing the Coopers Town jersey...no matter how many times you say it out loud. Just say you've completely given up on him and get it over with. Newsflash: 99.999% of all pitchers are not as good as Randy Johnson. Randy Johnson wasn't as good as Randy Johnson until about 8 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 I don't see why people think Rauch is a sure fire future HOF'er Once again: being very high on (healthy) Rauch is not the same as printing the Coopers Town jersey...no matter how many times you say it out loud. Just say you've completely given up on him and get it over with. Newsflash: 99.99 of pitchers are not as good as Randy Johnson. No, I haven't given completely up on him, and I'll speak for myself, thank you. I have no need in you doing it for me. I said what I meant to say and nothing more was implied. I like Rauch as a prospect to be a good ML pitcher.... maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Wow can we get Jon Rauch up here for a few starts before we send him to Cooperstown? He wasn't even good enough this spring to beat out Loiaza or Stewart... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Yeah, he's for real. I think Freddy Garcia, Vincente Padilla or even Kip Wells are "for real". Prior effortlessly dominating in his first year is a bit better than that. Sorry if I understated it too much for you... Okay, then, Prior is a bit better than "for real" I guess it's all in how you take it - when I say that someone is "for real", what I mean is that I don't think he's a flash in the pan or "good on a bad team" - what I mean is that the guy is a soild major-leaguer who will be good ( or great ) for a long time. Prior is already the best pitcher on the Cubs ( which alone would qualify him for the "good on a bad team" label ), and one of the better ones in the league, and the scary part is that he hasn't even gotten "respect" calls yet, since he's still basically a rookie. He will only get better with time and increased knowledge and comfort at the major-league level. he has great poise, and he doesn't seem to throw any pitches that would put undue strain on his arm. He has a well-documented base of lower-body strength and he doesn't seem to fade in the late innings ( note the 9th inning pitch velocity ). He doesn't get rattled when he gets knocked around, and he doesn't hurt himself with walks or wildness. He's always around the plate but seldom right over center of it. How's that? Enough praise? Too much praise? I didn't realize that "for real" was an insult or a slight....sorry...oh, and just to confirm your analogy, I think he's better than Freddy Garcia, Vincente Padilla and Kip Wells, two of whom I would qualify under your definition of "for real" - Kip Wells so far has had one okay year after 3 not-so-okay years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 I don't understand why everyone has their face in Prior's jock. It's almost as sickening as that Rodriguez guy on the Angels (who is suddenly God after a few good innings at the ML level). I heard that Prior says his style is a combination of Roger Clemens and Nolan Ryan. I'm sorry, but for any young pitcher to compare themself to either of those 2 men is completely absurd. Until he's struck out 5,000, won 300, thrown 7 no-no's, or won 5 Cy Young awards, punk Prior should keep his mouth shut and try to avoid looking like a moron. Let the "experts" make the comparisons -- he needs to just go out and pitch. Prior might be the real deal, but let's see him pitch 2 or 3 years in the majors before we tout him as "great". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 I don't understand why everyone has their face in Prior's jock. It's almost as sickening as that Rodriguez guy on the Angels (who is suddenly God after a few good innings at the ML level). I heard that Prior says his style is a combination of Roger Clemens and Nolan Ryan. I'm sorry, but for any young pitcher to compare themself to either of those 2 men is completely absurd. Until he's struck out 5,000, won 300, thrown 7 no-no's, or won 5 Cy Young awards, punk Prior should keep his mouth shut and try to avoid looking like a moron. Let the "experts" make the comparisons -- he needs to just go out and pitch. Prior might be the real deal, but let's see him pitch 2 or 3 years in the majors before we tout him as "great". Thank you but be aware the Jesus Prior jock sniffers willl take their tongues out of the cup just long enough to tell you that you are stupid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Thank you but be aware the Jesus Prior jock sniffers willl take their tongues out of the cup just long enough to tell you that you are stupid Heh, really? If saying "let's wait and see" is wrong to say for a young pitcher, then I'm sorry, all of you Prior lovers -- but I said the same thing about Buehrle, and I'll continue to say the same thing about any young player (pitchers especially) -- they need to prove it over at least a 2 year period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grebeck Fan Club Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 All I can say is I'm glad I picked him up in one of my fantasy baseball leagues. If you just compare him to guys in their second season, no one compares. And that's all you can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 Well I wouldn't mind him on our team and that's the highest comp I'll give a scrub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 So will you guys be reconsidering the question of whos the best Mark in town? Buerhle or Prior I'm sticking with Prior Forget the future, Prior's downright better than Buerhle NOW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 So will you guys be reconsidering the question of whos the best Mark in town? I'll admit I haven't seen nearly as much of Prior as I have of Buehrle, but I would take Buehrle over Prior in Game 7 of the WS. Buehrle has the poise and swagger that most veterans would kill for, and he's only in his 3rd full season. He's not nearly the strikeout guy that Prior is, but in the overall picture of being a complete pitcher, I would take Buehrle. And also, you can't say "forget the future" because Mark proved in 2002 that 2001 was not a fluke. Prior has yet to conquer the sophomore jinx. Until he does, IMO there's no discussion. Notice, I'm staying consistent with my "wait til he's been in the majors 2 full years" theory. I believe strongly in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Prior is definitely more nasty than Buehrle. It's pretty obvious. I think prior will accomplish enough this year to prove that. I remember we had a thread going earlier about who is/would be better, and we all said wait and see...well i know it's early, but wow, if he lights it up tonight...game over. This guy is ridiculous. And the best thing about it (from a cubs fans point of view anyway) is that with his mechanics, there's only a small chance he'll get injured this year, IMO. Baker just has to watch his pitch count...and that goes for all his pitchers. I think he let wood throw 120+ the other day. You can't be doing that in the cold in the 2nd week of April, that's pretty foolish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 So will you guys be reconsidering the question of whos the best Mark in town? Buerhle or Prior I'm sticking with Prior Forget the future, Prior's downright better than Buerhle NOW There 2 different pitchers. I say both of them are stellar at there young ages. Yeah I'll take Prior, But I'll take Buerhle as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Lol, Prior has had like what...maybe 14-15 decisions since he was called up? Buehrle has come and proved himself, won games, eaten innings and been s*** on by team management and comes back to do it again. I would rather have Buehrle myself. The guy is a great lefty and can be good for a long time. Using that stupid "Prior has great mechanics and won't get hurt" approach won't mean anything if he takes a liner off the forehead like the guy in LA. Didn't they already shut Prior down early last season because of some type of injury? I know it wasn't something major but nagging injuries can add up. Anywho, enough of my rant. I like Buehrle more than Prior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 14, 2003 Author Share Posted April 14, 2003 Thank you but be aware the Jesus Prior jock sniffers willl take their tongues out of the cup just long enough to tell you that you are stupid "Keep on tossing Buerhle's salad" right back at you, eminemboy. If saying "let's wait and see" is wrong to say for a young pitcher, then I'm sorry, all of you Prior lovers -- but I said the same thing about Buehrle, and I'll continue to say the same thing about any young player (pitchers especially) -- they need to prove it over at least a 2 year period. There is nothing wrong with "wait and see" mentality per se. (If you ask me it's too lazy, "play-it-safe"-y for my taste, but that's me- I've already admitted that I am not afraid to be proven wrong in 3-4 years or make a fool of myself with my predictions...) But you have to understand--and this only applies if you weren't being facetious and have actually watched Prior pitch--that saying "Prior is the best 1st year pitcher I have ever seen" is not such stretch either. Roger Clemens and Randy Johnson weren't nearly as good in their first 200 innings (and that was comparatively low-offense 80's!), so quit yer b****in' about how it's "disrespectful" to make comparisons and get your facts straight. Afterall, here we are proclaiming Josh Stewart "Buerhle 2.0" after one friggin' start... It's ridiculous for me to have to repeat the "great prospects aren't guaranteed a great career" boring-ass truism, but apparently I have to preface every single semi-prediction with it lest I run the risk of being "misunderstood". And the fact that I am a Cub hater as well as a Sox fan and in no way related to Prior clan should tell you something about how much I am impressed with this kid (he is a few years older than me, lol). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Thank you but be aware the Jesus Prior jock sniffers willl take their tongues out of the cup just long enough to tell you that you are stupid "Keep on tossing Buerhle's salad" right back you, eminemboy. Oh geezus.. like we needed THAT mental picture.. :puke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 So will you guys be reconsidering the question of whos the best Mark in town? Buerhle or Prior I'm sticking with Prior Forget the future, Prior's downright better than Buerhle NOW Right now...I'm taking Buehrle. If Prior proves he can do this for years to come(which I believe he will do), then I choose Prior. If Prior flops, then I guess I take Buehrle. However....I really don't see how Prior can flop. He's that good. Not many players are worth $15 mill a year. Assumng he can keep it all together....he is worth ATLEAST that....and most likely, more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 so quit yer b****in' about how it's "disrespectful" to make comparisons and get your facts straight. Afterall, here we are proclaiming Josh Stewart "Buerhle 2.0" after one friggin' start... I never said it was disrespectful to compare Prior to Clemens and Johnson -- in fact, I never mentioned Johnson, I mentioned Ryan -- I said is was completely absurd and that Prior is a moron for doing so.. And WE aren't proclaiming Stewart anything. The Sox organization has stated that he is very Buehrle-esque. Perhaps you are the one who needs to get their facts straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 So will you guys be reconsidering the question of whos the best Mark in town? I'll admit I haven't seen nearly as much of Prior as I have of Buehrle, but I would take Buehrle over Prior in Game 7 of the WS. Buehrle has the poise and swagger that most veterans would kill for, and he's only in his 3rd full season. He's not nearly the strikeout guy that Prior is, but in the overall picture of being a complete pitcher, I would take Buehrle. And also, you can't say "forget the future" because Mark proved in 2002 that 2001 was not a fluke. Prior has yet to conquer the sophomore jinx. Until he does, IMO there's no discussion. Notice, I'm staying consistent with my "wait til he's been in the majors 2 full years" theory. I believe strongly in it. clu you have been hanging out with me too long.. im starting to rub off on ya............. hands down buehrle over prior .........mark has the confidence and experience behind him and prior has no idea what hes in for .....espically if walk- a -thon wood takes a crap again this year.........it will suddenly become a long season for st. prior of the northside....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 14, 2003 Author Share Posted April 14, 2003 that Prior is a moron for doing so.. Now he is a moron? Why, because he is dominating opposition? I haven't heard him come out and say anything...and even if he did, so what? It has nothing to do with my point, buddy. Hating Cubs is great and all, but when taken to the extreme, it makes one look beyond silly...In any case, I wish Garland wasd as big a "moron" once in a while. The kid has "surfer dude" written all over him. And WE aren't proclaiming Stewart anything. The Sox organization has stated that he is very Buehrle-esque. Perhaps you are the one who needs to get their facts straight. Demagoguery at it's finest. Perhaps you should go back and read what Sox fans had to say about Stewart after spring training and 1 ML start then...but not before running a quick comparison (ERA, WHIP, k/bb ratio, etc) between Prior's first 200 innings and those of Ryan, Clemens, Johnson, etc and then adjusting (say half a point ERA-wise) for disparity between offensive output in 70's, 80's and 2000s. Yeah, those "facts"... ____________________________________________ "Great talent is not the same as great career...Duh!" - BrandoFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 ive seen prior twice now..once this year and once last...i dont see how he wont become a superstar barring injury or a complete mental meltdown...though with the cubs anything is possible if anyone hasnt seen jake peavy pitch yet you should check him out..the movement on his pitches are amazing..that kid also has a shot to be a stud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 14, 2003 Author Share Posted April 14, 2003 i dont see how he wont become a superstar barring injury or a complete mental meltdown Ballsy, honest answer. What I've been saying all along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 Let me say this... Prior is the better pitcher..right now AND most likely in the future But I'd rather have Buerhle on my team. 1. A hard-throwing strikeout pitcher like Prior has the better chance of getting injured. 2. Prior is quickly becoming a superstar and will be asking a hell of alot of more money than Buerhle. 3. Buerhle is a great clubhouse guy and he doesnt moan and talk s***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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