ESPN Preseason Power Rankings

[Y2HH]

See, now that was a better post.

 

Every team has weaknesses, and if you--as a fan--ignore them, they don't just go away. Posting both positives and negatives about your team makes your posts worth reading, but coming here and saying the Sox are terrible, you have a better offense, etc. accomplishes nothing and causes senseless arguements.

 

I love discussing baseball with fans of other teams, but to come right out and say "MY TEAM IS BETTER", is pointless, especially when you come into enemy territory flying your colors.

 

-y2

 

Okay you say I should be banned since I DONT BACK UP WHAT I SAY?

 

Okay sure... I got ya there 

 

Now to say you only lost Lee is pathetic. Maggs, despite playing only a third of the year, and Valentin who helped you win games, 3 Game Winners against my team on homeruns; they are all big losses.

 

I say my rotation is not as good as year,

I say my bullpen is about the same as you. {And Trust Me It Is! We loaded it up!}

I say my offense is better than you.

 

Okay I admit your rotation from top to bottom is a bit better than the Indians. You guys have more experience so Kudos to you on that.

 

Now What hits me is you think the Indians don't have a good offense.

To say Victor Martinez and Travis Hafner had Break Out years is lame. They had an average .300 average from A-MLB.

Now this lineup is loaded whether you like it or not.

Crisp, Belliard, Broussard, Martinez, Hafner, Blake, Gonzalez, Boone, and Peralta {AAA MVP}

 

Now I am always shaky with out 6-9 hitters. Blake has proven he can stay at .290 for a whole year. Gonzalez, if healthly, could really give us the insurance in the back. Our 8-9 will be average. I admit it.

[santo=dorf]

LMFAO!!!!!!

 

Casey Blake has never batted .290 ONCE in his career. (Unless you count the 18 games he played in 2001, which I imagine you are doing)

 

Keeping making s*** up............

[qwerty]

To say Victor Martinez and Travis Hafner had Break Out years is lame. They had an average .300 average from A-MLB.

 

Hanfer was a career .298 hitter in the minors.

[Y2HH]

I don't know why you guys keep fanning the flames.

 

Just do what I do, agree with him.

 

Hanfer was a career .298 hitter in the minors.

[Chisoxfn]

We can talk about pitching all we want, but I'm not going to say the Sox have a good starting rotation. El Duque is as fragile as china and Garland and Contreras have proven absolutely nothing in the majors thus far.

 

So the Sox have Buehrle, Garcia, and the rest questionmarks in my book. We shall see, we shall see.

 

I do love the Sox bullpen though and I'm not saying the Sox won't have a good rotation, but by all means I could see some experts thinking we have a rather crappy rotation. Just look at the career numbers of Garland and Contreras, nuff said.

[RibbieRubarb]

And all of the ESPN experts picked KC to run away with the division last year.

Cleveland is their flavor of the month, this year.

[Chisoxfn]

Okay you say I should be banned since I DONT BACK UP WHAT I SAY?

 

Okay sure... I got ya there 

 

Now to say you only lost Lee is pathetic. Maggs, despite playing only a third of the year, and Valentin who helped you win games, 3 Game Winners against my team on homeruns; they are all big losses.

 

I say my rotation is not as good as year,

I say my bullpen is about the same as you. {And Trust Me It Is! We loaded it up!}

I say my offense is better than you.

 

Okay I admit your rotation from top to bottom is a bit better than the Indians. You guys have more experience so Kudos to you on that.

 

Now What hits me is you think the Indians don't have a good offense.

To say Victor Martinez and Travis Hafner had Break Out years is lame. They had an average .300 average from A-MLB.

Now this lineup is loaded whether you like it or not.

Crisp, Belliard, Broussard, Martinez, Hafner, Blake, Gonzalez, Boone, and Peralta {AAA MVP}

 

Now I am always shaky with out 6-9 hitters. Blake has proven he can stay at .290 for a whole year. Gonzalez, if healthly, could really give us the insurance in the back. Our 8-9 will be average. I admit it.

 

The Indians offense is not better then the White Sox offense. The faith you have in your youngsters will soon resound. Players make progressions on there way up. Victor Martinez and Haffner both appear to be studs in the making, but I don't want to hear about Broussard, and Peralta and Belliard (can I say one year wonder) and even Coco Crisp. None of these guys are ready to just explode onto the scene. I do like Boone and Casey Blake and feel the Indians have a solid offense, but not a great one.

 

At times it will be very explosive, just like the Sox offense has been for the past few years. But Paul Konerko, Frank Thomas, Jermaine Dye, and Aaron Rowand are all very capable run producers. Then the Sox have Spod and Iguchi at the top of the lineup and Pyrzinski who is a proven average hitter and then Crede and Uribe (both have loads of talent).

 

Don't tell me the tribe has a better offense then the SOx because the loss of Maggs wasn't that big of a deal since the Sox offense ranked 3rd even without him and Frank and they will have Frank back.

 

Oh ya, did I mention an inshape Carl Everett.

 

Please, I will debate starting pitching because I think the Sox rotation could be really good, but at the same time it could be pretty AWFUL. The bullpen will be very strong though.

[YoungstownIndians]

To say the White Sox offense is better than the Indians is FALSE.

 

Simple. The Indians may indeed have the best OFFENSE In the league. And ask any analyst and they'd agree.

[Chisoxfn]

To say the White Sox offense is better than the Indians is FALSE.

 

Simple. The Indians may indeed have the best OFFENSE In the league. And ask any analyst and they'd agree.

No, they wouldn't. And are you forgetting the fact that the White Sox had the 3rd best offense in the league without Maggs and Thomas for a good chunk of the year.

 

Dye's production over a full season is better then the production the Sox got out of Maggs for part of the season and then the turds Borchard/Timo Perez the other part of the season (thats statistically PROVEN). Then you have Everett and Thomas who together will be better then Thomas for part of last year.

 

Then you have Iguchi replacing Willie Harris who was below average last year, which should also be an upgrade. You have Uribe who could put up similar numbers to last year (could also decline). Crede can't do anyworse then he did last year and is a guy with loads of potential plus he's gonna be the freaking 8 hole hitter.

 

AJ Pyrzinski is a proven all star and a GOOD hitter. The guy will hit around .300 and is an INSANE upgrade over Ben Davis/Jamie Burke/Miguel Olivo. Then you have Scott Posednik leading off who will be a solid leadoff hitter, something the Sox lacked last year.

 

And of course Rowand and Konerko who should both put up good numbers.

 

Hmmmm, the Sox offense actually should be as good as last year if not better. The Indians lose Omar Vizquel, will not get the season they got from Belliard last year and then are depending on guys like Peralta (and its proven that rookies and first/2nd year players are going to have ups and downs). YOu may get one to show up and just be a stud from the get-go (Pujols) but thats few and far between.

 

So please inform me how the Tribe offense has gotten better because Peralta and whoever else they run out is gonna be a major downgrade at SS. Then you have Aaron Boone which will be solid, Casey Blake (solid), Coco Crisp (solid), Haffner (good), Martinez (good) and Belliard (will be worse). So I'd say the Indians offense should perform similarly if you see some marked improvement out of some of there guys that have been in the league a few years, mixed with the fact that they will have loss production with Belliard (last year was a CAREER year) and same can be said for losing Vizquel (who had a great season last year and was a big ass piece to that lineup). Do I need to mention the loss of Matt Lawton as well?????

 

The Sox offense is still POTENT and the Indians is good, but the Sox offense is and will do better.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Feb 19, 2005 -> 02:30 PM)

We can talk about pitching all we want, but I'm not going to say the Sox have a good starting rotation.  El Duque is as fragile as china and Garland and Contreras have proven absolutely nothing in the majors thus far.

 

So the Sox have Buehrle, Garcia, and the rest questionmarks in my book.  We shall see, we shall see. 

 

I do love the Sox bullpen though and I'm not saying the Sox won't have a good rotation, but by all means I could see some experts thinking we have a rather crappy rotation.  Just look at the career numbers of Garland and Contreras, nuff said.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh come on. It's still best rotation in the AL Central.

 

Contreras career as a starter: 19-10, 228 IP, 4.70 ERA, 1.35 WHIP, 8.17 K/9, .236 BAA

Garland will be fine as the #5 starter.

[Chisoxfn]

Oh come on.  It's still best rotation in the AL Central.

 

Contreras career as a starter: 19-10, 228 IP, 4.70 ERA, 1.35 WHIP, 8.17 K/9, .236 BAA

Garland will be fine as the #5 starter. 

Santana, Radke >>>>> Buehrle/Garcia

 

Twins have the better rotation until Garland/Contreras prove that they can pitch at a better level and that El Duque can actually stay healthy.

 

I think the Sox have the better lineup and as good of a bullpen. If Shingo pitches like he did last year, then the Sox pen will be better.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Feb 19, 2005 -> 02:51 PM)

Santana, Radke >>>>> Buehrle/Garcia

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No they aren't. Just look at their road splits.

 

The back end of their rotation isn't capable of winning as many games as our back end.

[YoungstownIndians]

HAHA. The Twins Rotation is probably the best in the A.L.

 

There is a reason they have held you off the past 3 years.

[Chisoxfn]

Dude, no way. Radke is better then Garcia (Garcia has superior stuff) and Santana is light-years better then Buehrle and thats no knock on Buehrle, its just how good Santana is.

 

Its not even close, the Twins front two is better then the Sox. That could change with injuries or Garcia pitching like he's capable of, but until then its not the case.

 

And all I'm saying is the Sox back 3 isn't proven and its not, no other way of putting it. I think both Garland and Contreras have loads of potential, but potential doesn't = production and El Duque has to be healthy and he's done nothing to prove that over his career and its why I never liked the signing and thought it was stupid.

 

If he ends up being healthy then I agree, Sox rotation would be better, but I don't put faith in guys that over the long haul prove they are fragile.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(YoungstownIndians @ Feb 19, 2005 -> 02:54 PM)

HAHA. The Twins Rotation is probably the best in the A.L.

 

There is a reason they have held you off the past 3 years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We have a fifth starter this year troll boy.

 

Care to explain why all these rookies from last year won't undergo a sophmore slump like Jody last year?

[Chisoxfn]

HAHA. The Twins Rotation is probably the best in the A.L.

 

There is a reason they have held you off the past 3 years.

Well the year the Sox had Elo, Colon, Buehrle and Garland the Sox had the superior rotation. They also played vastly worse then there potential and couldn't do the little things it took to win the game.

 

They also had Billy Botch in the pen.

 

I do agree, the Twins have won the division the past 3 years for a reason. I'd say its a solid rotation mixed with a super strong bullpen and the fact that there defense makes as few mistakes as possible and there offense does a good job capitilizing on other teams mistakes.

[Chisoxfn]

We have a fifth starter this year troll boy.

 

Care to explain why all these rookies from last year won't undergo a sophmore slump like Jody last year?

Not if El Duque does his usual and falls apart after 100 innings.

[AddisonStSox]

We have a fifth starter this year troll boy.

 

Care to explain why all these rookies from last year won't undergo a sophmore slump like Jody last year?

 

Because...um...the Indians are better than the Sox, so deal with it.

 

I have no evidence to back my claims, neither stats nor anything else.

 

Um....but we are better. Cause...um...I said so.

 

 

:headshake

[santo=dorf]

I'm going to have to steal this from WHITESOX TROLL from the MLB message boards:

 

 

Buehrle: 2.63 ERA, 1.07 WHIP

Garcia (White Sox stats) : 3.25 ERA, 1.04 WHIP, 10.15 K/9

 

Santana: 2.58 ERA, .93 WHIP, 9.73 K/9

Radke: 4.06 ERA, 1.18 WHIP

 

Buehrle and Garcia's numbers are really inflated due to USCF.

 

Last season the Twins had the better 1-2 punch, but it isn't as largeas a gap as you think.

Radke is a very consistent pitcher, but he has averaged 12.7 wins per season. That's very Jon Garland-like.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Feb 19, 2005 -> 02:59 PM)

Not if El Duque does his usual and falls apart after 100 innings.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

KW was very impressed with his physical and even if El Duque (God forbid) pitched only 100 innings, it still 100 innings not pitched by Wright, Munoz, Rauch, Cotts, Grilli, Diaz, or Stewart.

[Rowand44]

Santana, Radke >>>>> Buehrle/Garcia

 

 

It's debatable between which 1-2 is better but there is no way imo that santana and radke is a great deal better then Mark and Freddy. Obviously Johan is superior to Mark but Freddy is a better pitcher then Brad. Radke has been very inconsistant in his career has a higher career era then Freddy, Freddy is younger and still has a chance to get better because of the type of stuff he has.

[3E8]

Santana, Radke >>>>> Buehrle/Garcia

 

 

Career Park Adjusted ERA+

 

Buehrle = 125

Garcia = 114

 

Santana = 136

Radke = 114

 

Okay, they're better. But 5 inequality signs?! Come on.

[3E8]

BTW, avg career ERA+ of Sox starters: 110.2. Avg career ERA+ of Indians starters: 100.4.

[Chisoxmatt]

Santana, Radke >>>>> Buehrle/Garcia

 

Its actually pretty close. I have no idea why you would say santana/radke >>>>> Buehrle/Garcia. Thats way off.

[Chisoxmatt]

BTW, avg career ERA+ of Sox starters:  110.2.  Avg career ERA+ of Indians starters:  100.4.

How do you like that Youngstown Indians?!