Gameday! Seattle vs. ChiSox 4-15-05

[ottawa_sox]

Marte is not a damn left handed specialist.

 

Cotts is a mop up reliever nothing more at this point.

 

Some days, Marte is the guy to throw it away. I was glad he got lifted after hitting someone. It just happened to be his first hitter.

 

I totally agree with the Cotts assessment. Although I still think he is growing and before the season is out, he may be given more responsibility. But I hear you. I did not like the situation he was brought into last game, especially after not pitching for a week.

[ottawa_sox]

http://baseball.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/pitc...Type=2&type=std

This isn't rocket science.  Vizcaino is a 1 inning / 15 pitch guy.  He's not a 2 inning guy.  There is nothing this year or last year to suggest he is.  Yet Ozzie continues to try & use him in that role.  It's moronic.

 

Politte, Marte, & Hermanson are your best guys in the pen right now.  These are the guys who have the numbers to back them up as being 2 inning guys.  Politte the least of the 3.

 

Shingo has never been anything more than a 1 inning / 15 pitch guy.  His numbers make him one of the best 15 pitch guys in the game.  But he's clearly having control problems this year & that's probably why where not seeing much of the frisbee.  You have to be able to throw it for strikes.

 

Cotts is the guy you don't use unless he's mopping up for a short bad start, or the SOX are blowing someone out.

 

When Ozzie learns this & starts managing wrt it we might start getting more fans as the surgeon general would downgrade the risk of heart attack.

 

 

Vizciano gave up a ground ball single to Ichiro. He is hardly the first. And the second hit was a broken bat bloop.

Politte has been good of late. I figure there is a good chance that if he is brought in in that last inning, he could easily be converted into the bug eyed, scared reliever for the next month, like we have seen so many times before. They tried Marte and he blew it.

 

Completely agree with you on the Cotts issue. I cling to hope that he will develop into being better.

Edited April 16, 2005 by ottawa_sox

[JUGGERNAUT]

What really bothered me in this game is that I believe it's a completely different game if Marte is allowed to relieve Viz at the start of the inning.

Opp are hitting .125 vs him w NON, & .227 in 04. There's just no way he could accrue those numbers & suck.

 

He used Marte for 2 pitches! It's a small sample size but look at how

Marte matched up in the 9th:

Ichiro .167 vs Marte

Reed never faced Marte

Ibanez .267 vs Marte (533 OPS)

Boone .000 vs Marte

Winn .750 vs Marte

Spiezo .600 vs Marte

Dobbs never faced Marte

 

It's just like last night. If Politte/Hermanson relieve El Duque it's a differen t ball game. Maybe the SOX squeak out a win. If he uses Marte correctly tonight maybe he saves Hermanson for the next game. When you mess up the pen it cascades & it gets real dicey when you go a long stretch without an off day.

[ottawa_sox]

What really bothered me in this game is that I believe it's a completely different game if Marte is allowed to relieve Viz at the start of the inning.

Opp are hitting .125 vs him w NON, & .227 in 04.  There's just no way he could accrue those numbers & suck. 

 

He used Marte for 2 pitches! It's a small sample size but look at how

Marte matched up in the 9th:

Ichiro .167 vs Marte

Reed never faced Marte

Ibanez .267 vs Marte (533 OPS)

Boone .000 vs Marte

Winn .750 vs Marte

Spiezo .600 vs Marte

Dobbs never faced Marte

 

It's just like last night.  If Politte/Hermanson relieve El Duque it's a differen t ball game.  Maybe the SOX squeak out a win. If he uses Marte correctly tonight maybe he saves Hermanson for the next game. When you mess up the pen it cascades & it gets real dicey when you go a long stretch without an off day.

 

I love Marte's stuff and usually expect him to come through. But sometimes, statistics aside, he just does not seem focused. He can occasionally look like a disaster waiting to happen. I swear, before he hit that guy, when it was paramount that the Mariners earned there way on, I thought to myself, "if he hits this hitter, get him out toute suite - it's one of those days". I was very relieved Ozzie took him out.

[ottawa_sox]

The other thing about Vizcaino, is that he used just 10 pitches (by my count) while striking out 2 and dominating the side in the 8th. And he appears to be equally effective against righties and lefties. Seems to me Ozzie was just trying to ride a hot hand for another batter or 2.

[JUGGERNAUT]

I love Marte's stuff and usually expect him to come through.  But sometimes, statistics aside, he just does not seem focused.  He can occasionally look like a disaster waiting to happen.  I swear, before he hit that guy, when it was paramount that the Mariners earned there way on, I thought to myself, "if he hits this hitter, get him out toute suite - it's one of those days".  I was very relieved Ozzie took him out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think you can all it either way after that. The next guy was a RH & Shingo might have been the better matchup there. But I think you'll agree Marte should have started the 9th. You don't give a guy much room for error if you're bringing him in with RISP & less than 2 outs.

 

I feel bad for Vizcaino. Ozzie's tried to stretch him more than 1 in now twice & that decision is just smoking his ERA. He took the damage again tonight. Both R's charged to him. Just like last week. Coming after he pitches a scoreless inning.

 

Can the Sox go with just a 6 man pen when Cotts is so bad? 10R, 24IP first 10 gms.

12 days w/out an off day. At least 30IP expected out of the pen. Cotts having to pitch 5+ innings in that time is scary.

 

In contrast MIN's pen line is 3R, 27IP first 10 gms. That's why their 7-3 as well.

[JUGGERNAUT]

The other thing about Vizcaino, is that he used just 10 pitches (by my count) while striking out 2 and dominating the side in the 8th.  And he appears to be equally effective against righties and lefties.  Seems to me Ozzie was just trying to ride a hot hand for another batter or 2.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree he did pitch a quick 8th (10 pitches) but he had faced 3 batters in doing so.

It's true he's actually more effective vs LHers than RHers. But he's got history that if you use him more than an inning you're going to pay. Ozzie left him in there after Ichiro singled, & then after Reed singled. That's inexcusable.

 

When Thomas returns maybe we should look to make a trade for another solid reliever. It won't be easy because every team wants solid relievers but the SOX just might have more to offer than most teams. You can argue that Ozzie has misued the pen in 2 of our 3 losses but that doesn't excuse the fact that the pen is looking shaky.

 

Feel bad for El Duque as well. He leaves last night's ball game w a 5-5 tie having given up a walk in the 6th. Cotts just needed to get the lead runner out to get El Duque off the hook. Instead he advances him on a WP, walks Crisp, gives up a single, & a double. After the damage had been done he did go on & record the next 6 outs. Maybe there's hope in that.

Edited April 16, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT

[ottawa_sox]

I agree he did pitch a quick 8th (10 pitches) but he had faced 3 batters in doing so.

It's true he's actually more effective vs LHers than RHers.  But he's got history that if you use him more than an inning you're going to pay.  Ozzie left him in there after Ichiro singled, & then after Reed singled.  That's inexcusable.

 

When Thomas returns maybe we should look to make a trade for another solid reliever.

It won't be easy because every team wants solid relievers but the SOX just might have more to offer than most teams.  You can argue that Ozzie has misued the pen in 2 of our 3 losses but that doesn't excuse the fact that the pen is looking shaky.

 

I think this is one of those instances where a manager has to be given some leeway on gut feel. I wouldn't be surprised if his ineffective second innings occur when he gets a pitch count in excess of 10 in the first inning. An Ichiro ground single is no reason to be alarmed and Reed didn't look good until a broken bat bloop. Beltre barely hung in with him for 8 pitches before finally succumbing. He still looked strong. Everyone complains about Ozzie playing all his cards one game and yet when he retains a bullet the next he still is questioned. I like the overall talent of the bullpen. It's difficult to witness 2 or 3 of them implode during the same game, but it's bound to happen now and then. Over the long haul I would take this bullpen over last year's. (Not that another Hermanson clone wouldn't be appreciated).

[Jabroni]

Wow, that was a great game until the scary end. I had awesome seats right behind the Sox dugout. I called out Timo and he gave me the nod. As much as I have ripped on Garland, T R U's boy was awesome tonight. I think he always gets a case of brain farts and just completely loses it in one inning but it's usually the 5th or 6th. He still pitched great tonight and I thought he was going to finish the whole game. If he can do that as our 5th starter more often, we are in for a helluva season.

 

Rowand's baserunning was spectacular tonight. When he took 3rd base, he even avoided the tag from Beltre by faking him out. It was awesome. And is Uribe the RBI sac-fly master or what? He's so clutch in that situation it's ridiculous.

 

However, that was the scariest 9th inning I have ever seen. I felt like I was watching the Flubs with LaTroy Hawkins pitching. What the hell happened to the frisbee, Shingo? Or is A.J. just not calling for him to throw it? Throwing 88 mph fastballs in the zone ain't gonna get anyone out. That's why he's struggling so much. If this keeps up Hermanson is going to be our closer, if he isn't already.

 

And JUGGERNAUT, Ozzie used Marte for only 2 pitches because he friggin' beaned a guy. What the hell is he supposed to do? Leave Marte in there to bean another guy in that high pressure situation? Marte is not good with pressure. Remember that horrible Flubs game last season?

Edited April 16, 2005 by Jabroni

[qwerty]

Marte is not good in pressure? More like he just can't close games out. He is out best reliever hands down. He should not be a godamn left handed specialist... which is how he is being used. Ozzie is an imbecile and needs a bullpen for dummies book.

[Jabroni]

The Sox are now 7-3 which is their best record in the first 10 games of the season since 1991.