Jon Garland

[southsider2k5]

This is hindsigth talking...

 

Nobody. Nobody would have supported signing garland to a long-term deal before the season. 

 

Not only that but you seem to think that he would have settled for 2-3M.  That's crazy.  He's making 3.4M this year.  That would have been a starting point for a long term contract.

 

3/12 would have been the starting point, and there's a possiblity he would have rejected anything over two, because that's when free agency would have started for him.

 

I wouldn't go too far about that... I know I mentioned a couple of times how Jon's numbers were better than guys like Kris Benson who got huge money in the off season, and that we might be surprised at how much they would get in this market.

[redandwhite]

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ May 4, 2005 -> 01:07 AM)

I wouldn't go too far about that...  I know I mentioned a couple of times how Jon's numbers were better than guys like Kris Benson who got huge money in the off season, and that we might be surprised at how much they would get in this market.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Exactly my point, great post.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

the market is out of control. I really wonder what a Garland would command but then I wonder how a garland will pitch for a full year too

[trexer]

JR doesn't like signing pitchers to long term deals.

 

He wouldn't with McDowell, Fernandez, Alvarez, Sirotka, Parque..etc.

 

Only recently have the Sox signed a pitcher for more than 2 to 3 years.

 

None of those guys exactly set the world on fire after leaving the Sox. JR did the right thing there.

[Rowand44]

I wouldn't go too far about that...  I know I mentioned a couple of times how Jon's numbers were better than guys like Kris Benson who got huge money in the off season, and that we might be surprised at how much they would get in this market.

Right, he's definitely better then some guys who got ludicrous contracts this offseason(Benson and Milton) the problem with signing him to a long term contract before the season is Mr. Mccarthy. Brandon's going to be in the rotation next year and some people were thinking that, that could have been at the expense of Jon. The sox have a lot of starting pitching options and decisions to make this upcoming offseason, should be interesting.

[kwill]

I hope he has an amazing year. So we can get good value for his ass in a trade and kick him in the ass and give him the finger ont he way out :finger I am glad that the man is having a great this season, but his ass is not worth 6 million dollars. We could get great value for him if he has a 15 win season.

[YASNY]

I hope he has an amazing year. So we can get good value for his ass in a trade and kick him in the ass and give him the finger ont he way out :finger I am glad that the man is having a great this season, but his ass is not worth 6 million dollars. We could  get great value for him if he has a 15 win season.

 

:headshake

[nitetrain8601]

Right, he's definitely better then some guys who got ludicrous contracts this offseason(Benson and Milton) the problem with signing him to a long term contract before the season is Mr. Mccarthy.  Brandon's going to be in the rotation next year and some people were thinking that, that could have been at the expense of Jon.  The sox have a lot of starting pitching options and decisions to make this upcoming offseason, should be interesting.

 

McCarthy might not pitch until 2 years from now when El Duque and Contreras' contracts are up. We might keep Contreras for way cheaper money, but I see El Duque retiring after his contract. Insert Brandon McCarthy there. But BMac isn't having such a great season in Charlotte now. No need to rush him for this year or next.

[TaylorStSox]

McCarthy might not pitch until 2 years from now when El Duque and Contreras' contracts are up. We might keep Contreras for way cheaper money, but I see El Duque retiring after his contract. Insert Brandon McCarthy there. But BMac isn't having such a great season in Charlotte now. No need to rush him for this year or next.

 

 

His K/BB ratio is still good. He's facing the same thing he'll face at The Cell, pitching in a bandbox. Homers are killing him right now. That's just a fact of life when you pitch in small parks. There's no need to rush him. There's no need to worry about his performance thus far either.

[redandwhite]

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ May 4, 2005 -> 04:11 AM)

Right, he's definitely better then some guys who got ludicrous contracts this offseason(Benson and Milton) the problem with signing him to a long term contract before the season is Mr. Mccarthy.  Brandon's going to be in the rotation next year and some people were thinking that, that could have been at the expense of Jon.  The sox have a lot of starting pitching options and decisions to make this upcoming offseason, should be interesting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You don't refuse to sign somebody because of a 21 year old who has yet to start a Major League game. You can never have enough pitching, not to mention Hernandez and Contreras can't be replaced?

[Capn12]

I hope he has an amazing year. So we can get good value for his ass in a trade and kick him in the ass and give him the finger ont he way out :finger I am glad that the man is having a great this season, but his ass is not worth 6 million dollars. We could  get great value for him if he has a 15 win season.

 

You do realize that 25 year olds with the grasp on MLB pitching like Jon Garland has don't just show up out of no where right?

[Rowand44]

You don't refuse to sign somebody because of a 21 year old who has yet to start a Major League game.  You can never have enough pitching, not to mention Hernandez and Contreras can't be replaced?

Of course they can be replaced but before the year started it seemed like garland was replaceable also. My point is the sox weren't going to sign Jon to a long term deal when he's been an average to slighty above average with Brandon ready to go.

Edited May 5, 2005 by Rowand44

[YASNY]

Of course they can be replaced but before the year started it seemed like garland was replaceable also.  My point is the sox weren't going to sign Jon to a long term deal when he's been an average to slighty above average with Brandon ready to go.

 

We've been agonizing for 4 years waiting for Garland to become the pitcher he is today, and now we want to boot him and bring up another young pitcher to replace him, and wait till he learns how to be a bifg league pitcher?

 

That sounds like a helluva plan.

[southsider2k5]

We've been agonizing for 4 years waiting for Garland to become the pitcher he is today, and now we want to boot him and bring up another young pitcher to replace him, and wait till he learns how to be a bifg league pitcher?

 

That sounds like a helluva plan.

 

I have been thinking the exact samething. People have been saying Garland will be good since we got him, and now that is might be realizing his potential, we are ready to let him walk away for the next great thing? No thanks. Resign Garland if at all possible, and if Brandon is good enough, he will beat someone else out... most likely El Duque.

[YASNY]

I have been thinking the exact samething.  People have been saying Garland will be good since we got him, and now that is might be realizing his potential, we are ready to let him walk away for the next great thing?  No thanks.  Resign Garland if at all possible, and if Brandon is good enough, he will beat someone else out... most likely El Duque.

 

Too many people are overly focused on the minor leaguers. Let the guys in the minors force us to make room for them instead of doing so and seeing what happens.

[Controlled Chaos]

I agree!!!!!

 

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...2867&hl=garland

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ May 4, 2005 -> 11:52 PM)

Of course they can be replaced but before the year started it seemed like garland was replaceable also.  My point is the sox weren't going to sign Jon to a long term deal when he's been an average to slighty above average with Brandon ready to go.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let's just sign everybody to long term deals like the Red Sox do! After all, we do have the resources like the Red Sox. :rolly

[Soxbadger]

Garland hopefully will be resigned for less than $7mil per year. Contreras most likely will be out unless he is willing to take a considerable pay cut, and McCarthy would take his place.

 

SB

[qwerty]

Garland hopefully will be resigned for less than $7mil per year. Contreras most likely will be out unless he is willing to take a considerable pay cut, and McCarthy would take his place.

 

SB

 

We are trading contreras i take it?

[Punch and Judy Garland]

I think that the Marlins and D-Backs have been interested and probably still would be interested in the Count, but you obviously don't trade starting pitching during th eyear when you are winning. Could be something to think about during the offseason though.

[Jabroni]

Garland hopefully will be resigned for less than $7mil per year. Contreras most likely will be out unless he is willing to take a considerable pay cut, and McCarthy would take his place.

 

SB

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ummm, Contreras is under contract for 2006 and we will only be paying him around $6 million. With the way Contreras can pitch when he actually goes after batters and the ridiculously inflated price of quality starting pitchers, Contreras is going nowhere. $6 million is a steal for a pitcher with his stuff, as long as AJ keeps threatening to kick him in the balls if he doesn't hit the plate.

Edited May 6, 2005 by Jabroni

[3E8]

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Earned runs allowed this year in each of Contreras' starts. Tommy likey.

[Jabroni]

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Earned runs allowed this year in each of Contreras' starts.  Tommy likey.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Indeed. Also, it's quite obvious that we need to keep AJ for as long as possible. I think a lot of Contreras' success has to do with AJ's game-calling skills. He keeps Contreras' head in the game.

[witesoxfan]

Ummm, Contreras is under contract for 2006 and we will only be paying him around $6 million.  With the way Contreras can pitch when he actually goes after batters and the ridiculously inflated price of quality starting pitchers, Contreras is going nowhere.  $6 million is a steal for a pitcher with his stuff, as long as AJ keeps threatening to kick him in the balls if he doesn't hit the plate.

 

 

IIRC, $6 mill this year, $8 mill next year.

 

$8 mill is getting up there in money, especially when there is a hell of a good chance you will need to get a new 1Bman, or at the very least, resign the one you currently have, along with potentially filling needs in the bullpen and paying for new guys coming in at the trade deadline who have 1 more year on their contract...of course, that would be figured out later, assuming KW were to make a trade, and I have no idea why he wouldn't.

 

When you have Contreras at $8 mill potentially putting up 15 wins and a 3.50 ERA, but also potentially putting up another dud season and going 12 wins 5.00, or BMac at $300,000 putting up 12 wins and a 4.50 ERA, or perhaps even better, you are faced with a seemlingly tough decision that I find very easy to make. You trade Contreras while his value is still high for the most you can get(like perhaps a stud 1B prospect in Adrian Gonzalez I believe his name is from Texas, or perhaps Ryan Howard from Philly, among others, or maybe you fill out needs on the current MLB team, though I am not sure which needs the Sox will have...depending on what they do with Shingo and the rest of the pen, perhaps some bullpen arms).

 

Contreras should be the odd man out after this season, period.

[witesoxfan]

The Sox organization has to be very cautious when it comes to Garland and not make the same mistake that they did by resigning Rowand. Garland is only five starts into the season and we all know anything could happen in the remained of his 27 starts. Garland hasn't had a track record for doing fantastic at the big league level, and it is Garland's contract year after all. I'd shy away from throwing any money at Jon for the forseeable future.

 

Cerb, I find a lot of your stuff very insightful, but this post, quite honestly, just pisses me off to no extent.

 

First of all, have you not watched Garland pitch? The guy is pitching his ass off, and his stuff actually looks pretty good. It is not unusual for a pitcher to finally figure it out and just start pitching his ass off. It may not be wise to lock him up to anything more than $7 mill a year, but if the Sox could lock him up to a 3 or 4 year contract at $18-24 mill after having proven he is a different pitcher by having a full, very good season for the Sox. I honestly don't see anything wrong with it. However, it was not that Garland part that pissed me off.

 

Your constant ragging on Aaron Rowand pisses me off to no end. You are kicking him while he is down, when it has been stated over and over again that he is a very poor hitter in April, and always has been. Be it his .125 or worse campaign to start the year in 03, his .268/.453/.721 last year, or his .295/.326/.621 this year. Don't consider that his worst career OPS outside of April is .729(which he puts up in May), which, while not very good, is not horrible by any means.

 

I can understand that you wouldn't like the guy. But don't hate on him and the Sox just because of that. You have to realize that his contract is very affordable, even if he only puts up .270 20 70 .775, and I can almost guarantee he will put up better than that. Give him time, and he'll work it out.