Richard Roeper...

[bjm676]

Interested to see everyone's take on this. Roeper is another local celebrity Sox fan.

 

Attitude kept Thomas from connecting with Sox fans

 

August 1, 2005

 

BY RICHARD ROEPER SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST

 

Michael Jordan owned this town. Sammy Sosa owned this town. Walter Payton, Jim McMahon and Dan Hampton owned this town. Mark Grace and Chris Chelios owned at least part of this town.

 

Mike Ditka has been an on-and off owner of this town since the 1960s.

 

Harry Caray still owns this town, from his restaurant to the 7th-inning stretch at Wrigley Field to the South Side, where we remember that Harry's Chicago legend was launched not in Wrigleyville, but at the old Comiskey Park.

 

Frank Thomas? He never owned this town.

 

He had the nickname, the physique and the talent.

 

He had the intelligence and the ambition. He had the charity foundation and the outside business interests that were supposed to catapult him to Jordanesque fame and fortune.

 

He just didn't have the personality for it.

 

I'm not talking about the private Frank Thomas. I don't know him, and neither do 99.9 percent of Chicago sports fans. When it comes to an athlete "owning" a town, it's all about how you conduct yourself on the playing field, on the public relations field, with the media and with the fans.

 

Who knows if Frank Thomas the human being is a more likable person than Michael Jordan. They've each had their share of controversies -- but Jordan always knew how to light up a room and light up a city (and much of the world), whereas Thomas always seemed to be griping about something. He's such a big man, but he often seemed so . . . small. And in a city filled with hard-working, hard-playing sports fans, we just don't want to hear superstar athletes constantly complaining.

 

Not that it started out that way. When Thomas joined the White Sox for the last two months of the Sox's last season at Comiskey Park in 1990, Sox fans of my generation were waiting for him. Sure, we had witnessed the occasional big home run year from a Bill Melton, a Dick Allen, an Oscar Gamble or a Richie Zisk, but we hadn't experienced a consistent, year-to-year, bona fide slugger ever.

 

Thomas was that man. He hit .330 in 60 games in Old Comiskey, and then ushered in the new ballpark in 1991 with 32 homers, 109 RBI and a .318 average.

 

We loved the guy. He was going to be our Ernie Banks.

 

That's how it went for the first few seasons. Thomas was ringing up big numbers, and the White Sox were on a roll. They made the playoffs in 1993 -- but after the Sox lost the first two games at home to Toronto, Thomas complained about fans who booed.

 

It was the wrong thing to say at the wrong time -- and it was the kind of thing Thomas would repeat throughout his career.

 

He got into a shoving match with Robin Ventura in the Yankee Stadium dugout after Ventura told him to stop b****ing at the ump. On other occasions, teammates would complain about Thomas not sliding.

 

He should have trademarked that "woe is me" look on his face whenever a strike was called.

 

He left an All-Star game while it was still in progress.

 

On the 50th anniversary of Jackie Robinson's debut, Thomas told ESPN, "I have to be honest. I guess I'm more from the new age. I didn't know much about the history and that part of things."

 

And there were all those gripes about his salary. The lowlight was in 2001, when Thomas walked out of camp over money.

 

The truth is that most fans didn't care about the demise of Thomas' music business or his divorce or any of that stuff.

 

What galled us was his attitude. He was playing a child's game for millions, and he rarely seemed to be happy about that.

 

On the upside, there's this:

 

1. Thomas spoke out early and often against steroids.

 

2. His stats are even more impressive because they're juice-free.

 

3. He won two MVPs and just lost out to the amped-up Jason Giambi for a third.

 

4. If the 1994 season hadn't been shortened by a strike, Thomas would have wound up with something like 55 homers, 150 RBI and a .350 average.

 

5. Unlike a lot of high-profile athletes, Thomas didn't get into scrapes with the law and he didn't affect a gangsta-wannabe persona.

 

6. Ten seasons with more than 100 RBI.

 

7. He was a line-drive hitter in a home run hitter's body. Nobody worked the count like Thomas.

 

8. In 1993, Thomas had 41 homers and 128 RBI -- but he struck out only 54 times in more than 650 plate appearances.

 

9. He cared about his stats -- but he cared about winning, too.

 

10. He came back this year and played through unimaginable pain. And for once, Frank really seemed to be a team guy.

 

Frank Thomas never became our Ernie Banks, even though he has comparable numbers. It's highly unlikely he'll assume a lovable, Banks-like image now that his career seems over.

 

Still, there is this. He's the greatest hitter ever to put on a White Sox uniform.

[ceffa2000]

Interested to see everyone's take on this.  Roeper is another local celebrity Sox fan.

I read that this morning and I thought it was interesting. He tends to be pretty sarcastic and critical at times but its not a bad article. It's hard to blame his lack of "owning" the city due to him playing on the Southside. I think he came pretty close for awhile but with the media blasting some of his comments, they turned away a lot of non-Sox fans.

Edited August 1, 2005 by ceffa2000

[the People's Champ]

I wish these damn reporters would give it a rest already. Just because players wont act the way the media wants them to act they attack them. I personally dont give a rat's ass what a player does off the field, if he does what he is getting paid for on the field, Im a happy camper. So he made some dumb comments or whatever, show me one person that doesn't say some dumb s*** every now and again. You cant.

A couple years ago he stopped at a gas station near my house(for what reason I have no idea) and people went up to him to get an autograph including my sister, and he signed many. On his own time not at some convention. To me thats class. He has done a lot for the White Sox organization but is often treated very unfairly in the media. I have always loved Frank, he is my favorite player of all time and nothing in the media is going to change my mind about that.

 

 

He would get my vote for the HOF!!!

Edited August 1, 2005 by the People's Champ

[SnB]

as much as i like frank thomas, can't say i disagree with the article.

it's a good article

[Steff]

I think he's connected with the fans just fine.. it's the media he has an issue with.

[UofIChiSox]

I can't argue with much that the guys says except for the last line, Joe Jackson might have been a better hitter, or Jose Canseco!

Edited August 1, 2005 by UofIChiSox

[greg775]

As I recall Frank was pretty lovable when he first came up as many players are.

He was on his way to be Ernie Banks, but then he got famous and somewhat crabby with the writers, etc.

Remember all the times he wouldn't talk for a month or so then be real gracious and talk again.

I think he's still been better personality wise than many stars of his ilk.

The one thing the writer didn't mention that he probably should have ... I don't think Thomas cares one iota he doesn't "own" Chicago. Harry, Ditka, Ernie cared.

[VAfan]

If Frank is forced into retirement too soon because of his foot injuries, is he going to get voted into the HOF?

 

He should. He was the best hitter in baseball in the early 1990s even though Ken Griffey Jr. got all the accolades. He should have won 3 MVPs. His lifetime numbers are way better than Kirby Puckett, who was also forced into early retirement.

 

The problem is that Frank hasn't connected with the fans in the way Kirby Puckett did.

 

But what is really bizarre is a total jerk steroid user like Barry Bonds gets way more adulation than Frank Thomas. So where's the message in that?

 

Personally, I haven't given up a sliver of hope that Frank will try and rehab and come back this year. It may not be possible, but if I were Frank I would give it my best shot. If he could play the last week or two of the season and try to get some timing back, do you think he couldn't help us in the postseason?

[greasywheels121]

Maybe he hates other fans or something, but the few times I got to interact with the guy, he just made me like the guy more.

 

2 short stories:

 

In elementary school we used to do this thing called "Young Authors." All the kids in the school wrote these books. In 2nd grade (1993-1994?), I wrote mine on Frank. After this project was over, I ended up sending him a letter with the book also enclosed. He sent my letter back, and hand wrote "Zachary, Great book! Keep up the good work!" with his autograph under that. A couple weeks later his secretary (this was when he had Big Hurt Enterprises in the Hancock Building), called and asked if I would like my book to keep with my letter. I said yes, and I got that back with the cover signed by Frank.

 

How could I not become a life-long fan after that?

 

--------------------------------------------------

 

A couple years later, we were in Chicago near the holidays. We were at the Watertower mall, and unknowningly that any of this was going on, Frank was doing a signing in some jewelry store. We went in, and he was signing for his foundation, but the prices were pretty steep for someone of my age at the time. He still chatted with me for a little bit, and I ended up getting my hat signed a picture with the Hurt for nothing in the end.

 

---------------------------------------

 

Maybe Frank didn't publicate himself to the point to show a lot of the good he did, to where he could have "owned the city," but I will always have respect for the guy and never dislike him.

 

 

Frank: :notworthy

[SnB]

adorable

[nitetrain8601]

I've always thought that he's connected with the fans quite well. I really haven't met anyone that's a fan that think he's a jackass or pompous idiot. His refusal to really deal with the media is what made the media turn him into a "bad guy."

[the People's Champ]

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 08:49 PM)

I've always thought that he's connected with the fans quite well. I really haven't met anyone that's a fan that think he's a jackass or pompous idiot. His refusal to really deal with the media is what made the media turn him into a "bad guy."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I may be wrong, but I dont ever recall Frank being booed at The Cell/Comiskey. Everytime i've been there he has gotten a great reception, and even his first game back this year he got the standing O. I don't know where they come up with "he hasn't connected with the fans"

[RibbieRubarb]

I think he's connected with the fans just fine.. it's the media he has an issue with.

 

I agree Steff.

I had the sincere pleasure and honor of meeting and chatting with the Big Man a few times.

 

At one Soxfest he was signing autographs for a long line of people, I asked him to sign one of grey kids gloves they sell at the park, for toddlers.

 

I said "Could you sign this for my Son"

 

"Sure, how old is he?"

 

"Just over a month old.."

 

He asked if I had a picture, I took out my wallet and showed him.

 

He told me that's a big kid for one month and that my son with take his job in 20 years.

 

 

 

He connected fine, by me.

[Steff]

I agree Steff.

I had the sincere pleasure and honor of meeting and chatting with the Big Man a few times.

 

At one Soxfest he was signing autographs for a long line of people, I asked him to sign one of grey kids gloves they sell at the park, for toddlers.

 

I said "Could you sign this for my Son"

 

"Sure, how old is he?"

 

"Just over a month old.."

 

He asked if I had a picture, I took out my wallet and showed him.

 

He told me that's a big kid for one month and that my son with take his job in 20 years.

He connected fine, by me.

 

 

That's the only side of Frank I have ever known. You should see him around his own kids. They own him bad.. LOL

[Middle Buffalo]

I've always thought that he's connected with the fans quite well. I really haven't met anyone that's a fan that think he's a jackass or pompous idiot. His refusal to really deal with the media is what made the media turn him into a "bad guy."

Like it or not, dealing witht the media is part of the profession. It's also another way to connect with the fans. I would have loved to hear Frank interviewed on the Score back in the day (and based on the reaction of this board when a Sox player is on the radio or ESPN, so would most of you).

 

Face it, Frank blew his opportunity to be more than just a player. He culd have been our icon. Ventura was and still is the most popular player from those 90's teams, and it's not because he was a better player. He was better with the media, and a better team player.

[greasywheels121]

Like it or not, dealing witht the media is part of the profession.  It's also another way to connect with the fans.  I would have loved to hear Frank interviewed on the Score back in the day (and based on the reaction of this board when a Sox player is on the radio or ESPN, so would most of you). 

 

Face it, Frank blew his opportunity to be more than just a player.  He culd have been our icon.  Ventura was and still is the most popular player from those 90's teams, and it's not because he was a better player.  He was better with the media, and a better team player.

 

Robin was popular, but you're wrong with that statement. Where were all the Robin posters and endorsements?

[SnB]

Like it or not, dealing witht the media is part of the profession.  It's also another way to connect with the fans.  I would have loved to hear Frank interviewed on the Score back in the day (and based on the reaction of this board when a Sox player is on the radio or ESPN, so would most of you). 

 

Face it, Frank blew his opportunity to be more than just a player.  He culd have been our icon.  Ventura was and still is the most popular player from those 90's teams, and it's not because he was a better player.  He was better with the media, and a better team player.

i agree with your first paragraph. The nation and more so casual fans, go by what the media says, he did a poor job of that.

 

But your second paragraph is way off. When we think about this era of sox in a few years, frank is the most recognizable BY FAR

[Steff]

Robin was popular, but you're wrong with that statement.  Where were all the Robin posters and endorsements?

 

 

Agree totally. Robin was more of a hermit than Frank was/is. Frank owned this city for nearly 10 years. Robin not so much.

[Middle Buffalo]

Agree totally. Robin was more of a hermit than Frank was/is. Frank owned this city for nearly 10 years. Robin not so much.

I don't disagree, and wasn't as clear as I should have been. My point is that Robin never said two words, but he was really popular (with the fans).

 

Frank had an opportunity to be a huge national figure, and it wouldn't have taken more than a little effort from him. He didn't step up, and as a result, both Frank and the Sox (one of the best teams and best players of the 90's) are an afterthought nationally.

 

I'm not saying he should have done anything differently, but he certainly could have done more.

[SnB]

I don't disagree, and wasn't as clear as I should have been.  My point is that Robin never said two words, but he was really popular (with the fans). 

 

Frank had an opportunity to be a huge national figure, and it wouldn't have taken more than a little effort from him.  He didn't step up, and as a result, both Frank and the Sox (one of the best teams and best players of the 90's) are an afterthought nationally.

 

I'm not saying he should have done anything differently, but he certainly could have done more.

frank also would have had alot more national exposure if he wasn't injury plagued the last 5 years, that's the main reason

[Middle Buffalo]

frank also would have had alot more national exposure if he wasn't injury plagued the last 5 years, that's the main reason

On highlight shows, yes. Frank never did interviews and promoted the Sox or himself, though.

[SnB]

On highlight shows, yes.  Frank never did interviews and promoted the Sox or himself, though.

i agree, frank mismanaged the media, but that's just who the guy is, oh well. He didn't really do anything for fans to hate him, he just wasn't a loveable media character. Some people aren't, oh well......he has a damn fine legacy to himself no matter what.

[greasywheels121]

On highlight shows, yes.  Frank never did interviews and promoted the Sox or himself, though.

 

The media didn't help that either though. They've really loved to highlight the bad with him, and not so much the good.

[Jake]

Any player would go home and complain to their buddies about the fans booing, salary, etc. Frank just happened to do that to the media. I think Frank is probably a great guy, and as a kid I never heard he was a bad guy or anything. He was the Big Hurt, and he had his own Super Nintendo game that I played and the only bad guy on the Sox was Albert Belle.

[greasywheels121]

Any player would go home and complain to their buddies about the fans booing, salary, etc. Frank just happened to do that to the media. I think Frank is probably a great guy, and as a kid I never heard he was a bad guy or anything. He was the Big Hurt, and he had his own Super Nintendo game that I played and the only bad guy on the Sox was Albert Belle.

 

I remember mowing so many lawns to save up for that game.

 

I'm actually thinking of bringing the Super Nintendo (old school, ) down to Bloomington this year, and doing a season with the Sox on that game.