DBAHO Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 Right now Freddy should be pitching game one, JG game two, and then game 3 comes down to Buerhle or Contreras. I'd still pick Buerhle, he's a gamer, and I think he's gonna get things figured out, he's had lulls in his career before, and he's bounced back from them, and I don't think this is going to be an exception. I will say this however. How ironic that people want Jose Contreras to be our #1 starter in the playoffs now. I remember a point after a 7 or 8 walk performance in July against the Oakland Athletics were people were so desperate to get rid of him, they were queing up. Just showing the fluctuations you can have about how you feel for a player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Sep 10, 2005 -> 08:45 AM) Kind of like the 'clutch' debate -- does he pick up his game for good teams, or let it down for bad ones? I'd expect that, if a pitcher is trying hard every game, there would be a positive correlation between the quality of the opponent and era/whip (on average), based on the idea that better teams often have better hitters. Just b/c it's not true for one pitcher (FG) doesn't change that. Actually, my suspicion is that, as FG's correlations are so large in absolute terms, this stat varies widely between pitchers, meaning MB's correlations are not very meaningful. I agree that the stat is not very meaningful. I only popped 'em into a spreadsheet to see if I could disprove the "Mark Buehrle pitches poorly against playoff teams" theory. I do think that both the result for Garcia and Buehrle reaffirm what many have said here though. They're not blowing total smoke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 If you look at the numbers, Contreras and Garcia are now have almost identical seasons. Contreras had a few tough luck no decisions, and was left in a little long and gave up some meaningless runs in other starts, or his stats and recent hot streak would make him a serious candidate to open the playoffs. I think Buerhle will pitch better in his next few starts, but if not, you can't have him your #1 starter in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Sep 10, 2005 -> 08:12 AM) If you look at the numbers, Contreras and Garcia are now have almost identical seasons. Contreras had a few tough luck no decisions, and was left in a little long and gave up some meaningless runs in other starts, or his stats and recent hot streak would make him a serious candidate to open the playoffs. I think Buerhle will pitch better in his next few starts, but if not, you can't have him your #1 starter in the playoffs. I agree. Last night's performance(man, now I know how the green seats are going to look like) just continues to prove my theory right(that I was bashed for) that Buehrle just can't play well against good teams and he can't win in big games. Honestly, when Contreras is on, I think he has a better chance than Buehrle. Same goes with Garland and Freddy. Buehrle is a guy who just really feasts on mediocre teams. Not a stopper which an ace usually is. Like I've been saying, "Buehrle is not an ace." For the other guys I mentioned, they don't lose just because they're facing a good team. When they lose, it's because they just lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 Mark Buehrle has balls guys. I'm not concerned about him AT ALL. However I would like to see Brandon McCarthy make some starts for Buehrle before the end of the year. It would be a great idea to get our 4 guys a rest before going into the post-season. PS What is everyone's take on Contreras pitching in October? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 QUOTE(CWSOX45 @ Sep 10, 2005 -> 09:26 AM) Mark Buehrle has balls guys. I'm not concerned about him AT ALL. However I would like to see Brandon McCarthy make some starts for Buehrle before the end of the year. It would be a great idea to get our 4 guys a rest before going into the post-season. PS What is everyone's take on Contreras pitching in October? I'd like to see him do it if he continues what he's doing now. Honestly, when he's on, I think he's our best pitcher. He has filthy stuff. He could shut down everyone when he's on. The Yankees, Red Sox, anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 No matter how mediocre Buehrle is down the stretch, I cannot see Oz starting anyone else in game one. No matter who we are playing. You guys think differently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Sox Josh Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 Guys Mark Buehrle is currently the ERA leader in the AL. He is an inning eater. HE IS AN ACE. He is just going through a rough stretch. He is still the best pitcher in this city. My god. Two months ago he was the best pitcher in basebal. He is having a career year. Let's settle down and relax. He had a bad game. He is struggling right now. Santana was terrible earlier this season. Is he still an ace? Hell yes. In fact last season can anyone tell me who the Sox beat in that game that they won 17-7? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Sep 10, 2005 -> 12:04 PM) Guys Mark Buehrle is currently the ERA leader in the AL. He is an inning eater. HE IS AN ACE. He is just going through a rough stretch. He is still the best pitcher in this city. My god. Two months ago he was the best pitcher in basebal. He is having a career year. Let's settle down and relax. He had a bad game. He is struggling right now. Santana was terrible earlier this season. Is he still an ace? Hell yes. In fact last season can anyone tell me who the Sox beat in that game that they won 17-7? He is not currently the ERA leader. He could fall further back after today's game. He is the league leader in hits allowed though. Edited September 10, 2005 by 3E8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Sep 10, 2005 -> 01:04 PM) Guys Mark Buehrle is currently the ERA leader in the AL. He is an inning eater. HE IS AN ACE. He is just going through a rough stretch. He is still the best pitcher in this city. My god. Two months ago he was the best pitcher in basebal. He is having a career year. Let's settle down and relax. He had a bad game. He is struggling right now. Santana was terrible earlier this season. Is he still an ace? Hell yes. In fact last season can anyone tell me who the Sox beat in that game that they won 17-7? BS. He just happens to have a bad game or he struggles whenever he's up against a playoff-caliber team. There's no way that Mark Buehrle is an ace. Aces beat the best teams, Mark Buehrle doesn't. I'm sure he'll win his next few starts against the Royals, Tigers, _____ garbage team, and then everyone will be happy and say, "See, that's our ace!" Then, he'll get destroyed by a good team in the playoffs...and he was just struggling at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Sep 10, 2005 -> 11:56 AM) BS. He just happens to have a bad game or he struggles whenever he's up against a playoff-caliber team. There's no way that Mark Buehrle is an ace. Aces beat the best teams, Mark Buehrle doesn't. I'm sure he'll win his next few starts against the Royals, Tigers, _____ garbage team, and then everyone will be happy and say, "See, that's our ace!" Then, he'll get destroyed by a good team in the playoffs...and he was just struggling at the time. My thoughts exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 Good for you guys. Then, the White Sox shouldn't pitch Buehrle at all in the playoffs 'cause he'll get his ass handed to him if he does. Can you imagine the b****ING on this site if Buehrle doesn't pitch in the playoffs? (assuming they make it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Sep 10, 2005 -> 12:11 PM) Good for you guys. Then, the White Sox shouldn't pitch Buehrle at all in the playoffs 'cause he'll get his ass handed to him if he does. Can you imagine the b****ING on this site if Buehrle doesn't pitch in the playoffs? (assuming they make it) Really wouldn't care. If we lose, the difference would be him getting the losses instead of someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAfan Posted September 10, 2005 Author Share Posted September 10, 2005 After today, should we add Garland to the pile along with Buehrle?? I think Buehrle-Garland 1-2 in the postseason could be a recipe for a quick exit. Frankly, Contreras is pitching the best of any of our starters, with Brandon McCarthy second (blasphemy I know), and Garcia probably third. If I were Ozzie, I'd be pulling my hair out trying to figure this out. We really don't have any long term Aces. We have Aces of the moment, and Ozzie has to figure out the best Aces of the moment once we hit the postseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Sox Fan Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 QUOTE(3E8 @ Sep 10, 2005 -> 09:42 AM) No matter how mediocre Buehrle is down the stretch, I cannot see Oz starting anyone else in game one. No matter who we are playing. You guys think differently? That's why we'll lose game one. I love MB, but he's not up to it. He may have balls, but he was shelled last night and hasn't beaten a good team since God knows when. I know you will all rip me, but I'd start Garland game one, Contreras game two, Garcia on the road in game three and then Buerhle. I don't care what he "deserves". Sox fans, who he doesn't appreciate by the way, deserve an f-ing championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Sox Fan Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Sep 10, 2005 -> 11:56 AM) BS. He just happens to have a bad game or he struggles whenever he's up against a playoff-caliber team. There's no way that Mark Buehrle is an ace. Aces beat the best teams, Mark Buehrle doesn't. I'm sure he'll win his next few starts against the Royals, Tigers, _____ garbage team, and then everyone will be happy and say, "See, that's our ace!" Then, he'll get destroyed by a good team in the playoffs...and he was just struggling at the time. Agree 100%. Well put. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Sox Josh Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Sep 10, 2005 -> 12:56 PM) BS. He just happens to have a bad game or he struggles whenever he's up against a playoff-caliber team. There's no way that Mark Buehrle is an ace. Aces beat the best teams, Mark Buehrle doesn't. I'm sure he'll win his next few starts against the Royals, Tigers, _____ garbage team, and then everyone will be happy and say, "See, that's our ace!" Then, he'll get destroyed by a good team in the playoffs...and he was just struggling at the time. still the best pitcher in Chicago and one of the best in the AL. My god 2 months ago we were saying Buehrle was god. Now he is garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 So how long until the "Decline" thread makes a reappearence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Sep 10, 2005 -> 03:47 PM) still the best pitcher in Chicago and one of the best in the AL. My god 2 months ago we were saying Buehrle was god. Now he is garbage. No he was arguably(Garland could have a case) the best pitcher in the 1st half in Chicago. Now he's gone to s***. Right now, I'd take Contreras in a head-to-head matchup against Buehrle. And I actually like Buehrle alot. One of my favorite players on the team because he speaks his mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Sep 10, 2005 -> 03:50 PM) So how long until the "Decline" thread makes a reappearence? It shouldn't. He's been this type of pitcher for some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox311 Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 Mark Buehrle has balls guys. I'm not concerned about him AT ALL. However I would like to see Brandon McCarthy make some starts for Buehrle before the end of the year. It would be a great idea to get our 4 guys a rest before going into the post-season. PS What is everyone's take on Contreras pitching in October? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Gee, I have two nuts, can I pitch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Sox Josh Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Sep 10, 2005 -> 05:44 PM) No he was arguably(Garland could have a case) the best pitcher in the 1st half in Chicago. Now he's gone to s***. Right now, I'd take Contreras in a head-to-head matchup against Buehrle. And I actually like Buehrle alot. One of my favorite players on the team because he speaks his mind. Jose is probably my favorite player on the team right now however even i wouldn't do that and i have defended Jose despite all the cristicism he has gone through. Buehrle has won 15 games. He is more proven then Contreras and he is going through a rough stretch. He isn't garbage either. His ERA for the 2nd half before yesterday night's start was 3.86. That's not that bad. Everybody should've known that his 2.58 ERA at the break wasn't gonna last because that is very hard for any pitcher to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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