LosMediasBlancas Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 15, 2005 -> 04:38 PM) It's not? These guys have thrown so many pitches all year because of Ozzie's long hook, who knows if they would have had more left in the tank for the stretch run. While Ozzie has gone out of his way to rest a lot of guys like Iguchi, he's been using his starting pitchers an awful lot in regards to number of pitches. However, all the blame for this should not be on Ozzie. This is a full organizational collapse. BTW, we're 1-6 since the players b****ed about attendance. I get the feeling this chemistry crap went out the window recently. I don't know what might have triggered it, but the whole team looks tense, flat and defeated. Hawk has that sound to his voice again. He'll never tell us what's up, but he doesn't need to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 QUOTE(Wanne @ Sep 15, 2005 -> 03:42 PM) How the hell can you blame Ozzie for Carl being a complete dips*** on the bases and taking us out of a possible few more runs. 3 OUTS ON THE BASES EARLY ON! I'm tellin ya...I don't give a s*** if Ozzie doesn't thing goin off would help....but it time...you've got nothing to lose. Well then how can you give Ozzie credit when the team wins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Sep 15, 2005 -> 02:45 PM) You're right. KW needs to get some blame here as well. This team has been average at best the last 2 1/2 months this season. He did nothing but bring in Geoff Blum to improve the talent base. Players moved and players were available who could have helped this team. KW listened too much to Ozzie and too much to others in the organization who preached the chemistry BS. For the love of God, the White Sox aren't going to get as many fortunate bounces and breaks as they got the first 3 months of the season, probably for a long time. They are going to have to raise the talent level of their team if they want to be anything but average in the coming seasons. Almost everyone who came talking about trades wanted either BMac or Jenks. Would you have given up either of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Sep 15, 2005 -> 04:46 PM) AL MANAGER OF THE YEAR Just STFU already... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downstairs Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Sep 15, 2005 -> 04:42 PM) Can we fire Ozzie today? Why wait? I would not have a problem with this. It may just light a fire under the players butts. George Steinbrenner used to fire managers left and right. He also has a handfull of World Series rings, and is in the playoffs pretty much every single year. Tell Ozzie he's got two losses left in the regular season. Three strikes you're out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 QUOTE(LosMediasBlancas @ Sep 15, 2005 -> 09:45 PM) I get the feeling this chemistry crap went out the window recently. I don't know what might have triggered it, but the whole team looks tense, flat and defeated. Hawk has that sound to his voice again. He'll never tell us what's up, but he doesn't need to. Go back and read my list of reasons I feel this is a full organizational collapse. Between the Marte situation, the Duque/McCarthy stuff, the players b****ing about attendance, Iguchi b****ing about rest/spot in the order, and Gload's b****ing....this sure seems like the 2004 Cubs. LaTroy Hermanson looked good last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallyburger Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Sep 15, 2005 -> 05:42 PM) Can we fire Ozzie today? Why wait? Ozzie has blundered his way through these first 2 years. I have no idea how the Sox won so many games the first half. It was amazing to watch. One run wins, scheduling, other teams screwing up. It seems to have finally caught up with this team. They may hold on in spite of Ozzie, but it would be blind luck for Ozzie to win it. This team seemed to win in spite of him. Should he go. Hell yes. He never shpuld have been here in the first place. I really think he was an over seer while Jerry dumped payroll and things went crazy good for the Sox. Hell they will keep him around for quite a few years, because if this team goes into the dumps this year, I can't imagine how bad it will be for the next few and he will be the distraction Reinsdorf needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 15, 2005 -> 04:48 PM) Go back and read my list of reasons I feel this is a full organizational collapse. Between the Marte situation, the Duque/McCarthy stuff, the players b****ing about attendance, Iguchi b****ing about rest/spot in the order, and Gload's b****ing....this sure seems like the 2004 Cubs. LaTroy Hermanson looked good last night. I disagree, fathom. I just think those sorts of stories are what come up when the spotlight is placed more intensely on a situation. I highly doubt it's any different then what other teams like the Yankees or Red Sox go through. You can oftentimes hear about how it's a soap opera for those situations too. More spotlight means more dramatic stories, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 15, 2005 -> 03:46 PM) Almost everyone who came talking about trades wanted either BMac or Jenks. Would you have given up either of them? You know this how? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Sep 15, 2005 -> 09:51 PM) I disagree, fathom. I just think those sorts of stories are what come up when the spotlight is placed more intensely on a situation. I highly doubt it's any different then what other teams like the Yankees or Red Sox go through. You can oftentimes hear about how it's a soap opera for those situations too. More spotlight means more dramatic stories, I think. But doesn't a lot of it seem to be happening while our struggles have taken place? To me, that seems like a lack of composure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 QUOTE(LosMediasBlancas @ Sep 15, 2005 -> 03:32 PM) I'll overreact for ya. If we miss the post season, the future of the franchise is in trouble. You don't really believe THIS Sox team will repeat next year do you? You thought there couldn't be a bigger choke than the Cubs a few years ago? You think people don't come to the park now?....and we've been in 1st all year long!! You think we play second fiddle to the Cubs now? You think we get no love from the local, not to mention the national media now? Stock up on booze and painkillers, it's gonna be a wild two and half weeks. You don't think it would make the Sox "LOVABLE"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 QUOTE(mmmmmbeeer @ Sep 15, 2005 -> 09:22 PM) initial post that didn't make it: I don't see how JR has any choices but to can Oz if this team happens to miss the playoffs. He did a hell of a job the 1st half as far as keeping the mood light, although we all saw that his in-game decisions were not what was winning those ballgames. Well, our slide against OAK drained some of the happy happy energy in the clubhouse which leaves Oz's main responsibility to manage the ball game. He's failed miserably and has lost his team. If they miss the playoffs, they will have blown a 15 game lead in less than 2 months, not to mention the games lost to the wildcard winner. If they miss the wildcard that, in my opinion, is what really spells doom for Oz. I can somewhat understand losing the lead to Cleveland who is just demolishing everyone they've faced in the last 2 months, but to lose a wildcard slot is unacceptable. Meanwhile, starters are being benched and our pitchers are visibly exhausted while a stud is left handling mop up duty for El Duque. If JR doesn't can Oz or KW he'll never hear the end of it. Could be an interesting offseason if the s***house goes up in flames. But, alas, we aren't going to have to worry about any of this because we'll cruise into the postseason as division champs.....hopefully. Jim Morrison fan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 (edited) IF Sox miss postseason KW or OG will have to go and my vote would be KW and OG really someone has to pay for utter complete failure of 2005. OG handling of staff and pen are some of the worst I have seen by a MLB manager. Edited September 15, 2005 by Soxfest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 QUOTE(Soxfest @ Sep 15, 2005 -> 03:58 PM) IF Sox miss postseason KW or OG will have to go and my vote would be KW someone has to pay for utter complete failure of 2005. I agree 100%. Someone has to go. There's not even a BS injury excuse. I know Frank was injured, but plenty of time to get an average bat to help. I think Ozzie needs to give Borchard a shot somewhere, he had a good power year in AAA and he's looked a lot more under control in his 2 or 3 ABs this year. Listen, he won't lose them anymore games, might be a spark they need Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjm676 Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Sep 15, 2005 -> 04:46 PM) AL MANAGER OF THE YEAR I have two words for you: ERIC.WEDGE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 The only way ozzie is not the manager next year is if he quits. There is no chance a team is gonna fire a manager they just gave a two year extension to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 QUOTE(Soxfest @ Sep 15, 2005 -> 09:58 PM) IF Sox miss postseason KW or OG will have to go and my vote would be KW and OG really someone has to pay for utter complete failure of 2005. OG handling of staff and pen are some of the worst I have seen by a MLB manager. KW deserves a lot more praise than Ozzie. KW had a terrific offseason when he found very solid replacements at our most important holes. It would be a shame if KW took the fall for this team choking. I hope Steve Stone is ready to fill in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 Maybe Brooks can jump on the bandwagon of sox fans if they blow this. Here is the new official hat for this years whitesox if they give this up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 QUOTE(marsh @ Sep 15, 2005 -> 10:03 PM) The only way ozzie is not the manager next year is if he quits. There is no chance a team is gonna fire a manager they just gave a two year extension to. Who was the person on here who thought it was a terrible move by the Sox? I remember there was someone who was all over the move when it happened? No, it wasn't me. I really want to know who said it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 If we don't win the division this season...I don't know if Ozzie should be fired...but Ozzie should resign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg The Bull Luzinski Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 Terry Bevington is still available. He handles pitching staffs equally well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigred3535 Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 During the pregame interview with Konerko today, he just looked plain tired. DJ asked him a couple questions about the clubhouse and he kind of sighed and said they weren't all that happy right now. And this is coming from the only guy who seems to be playing well...it certainly looks as if the Sox players may be growing tired of Ozzie's act already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg The Bull Luzinski Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 QUOTE(bigred3535 @ Sep 15, 2005 -> 05:15 PM) During the pregame interview with Konerko today, he just looked plain tired. DJ asked him a couple questions about the clubhouse and he kind of sighed and said they weren't all that happy right now. And this is coming from the only guy who seems to be playing well...it certainly looks as if the Sox players may be growing tired of Ozzie's act already. Not sure this is an act. This is the Ozzie we expect when we hired him. He is not a rocket scientist. He is not a smart baseball man. He plays by his gut. He lets his pitchers stay in too long because his gut tells him so. Hell, this is the same gut that tells him to play Timo once or twice a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 15, 2005 -> 04:07 PM) If we don't win the division this season...I don't know if Ozzie should be fired...but Ozzie should resign. I was thinking about that. I think the chances of OG resigning are far greater than him getting fired. That day trip to Miami may be a sign of a crack in the armour. There was that issue with his heart in spring training which turned out not to be serious, but it would make you think. He's stated several times he doesn't need the money, maybe he may just decide he doesn't need the headaches that go with managing a major league team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 15, 2005 -> 04:06 PM) Who was the person on here who thought it was a terrible move by the Sox? I remember there was someone who was all over the move when it happened? No, it wasn't me. I really want to know who said it. I thought it was horrible. He actually has done far better than I thought he would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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