SleepyWhiteSox Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Oct 1, 2005 -> 02:25 PM) If its very obvious you havent watched Vizcaino the whole season after his 1st 2 months and I guess the same thing goes for El Duque too. You're right...I've closed my eyes each time Viz pitches. Until I can see him consistently do well in non-garbage time situations, I will continue to not really trust him. I mean, can you really name multiple situations in which he's come out in a pressure situation and done well? At least Duque has a history of doing well, and I'll take my chances on that over what Viz has shown me. And I didn't even get to catch today's game until the 8th but it looks like Viz was doing as expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 QUOTE(qwerty @ Oct 1, 2005 -> 02:35 PM) What is the fascination with hernandez here? He isn't Vizcaino. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Oct 1, 2005 -> 02:34 PM) He isn't Vizcaino. He's much worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Oct 1, 2005 -> 03:35 PM) He's much worse. Vizcaino's performance today impressed you more than Duque coming in for an inning and getting 2 K's?...and that was after Viz had given up a hit, I believe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Oct 1, 2005 -> 03:41 PM) Vizcaino's performance today impressed you more than Duque coming in for an inning and getting 2 K's?...and that was after Viz had given up a hit, I believe... You are comparing innings. We are talking about months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 Vizcaino svcks. I can count at least a dozen times this year with the game on the line he caved under pressure. With respect to Marte .. that was a good pitch .. Hafner is one of the best in the game. Marte pitched good today. El Duque deserves to be on the roster & in the pen. He's an arm that is lofty in experience & won't cave under pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 QUOTE(YASNY @ Oct 1, 2005 -> 03:49 PM) You are comparing innings. We are talking about months. Since the playoffs are in a couple of days, I'm talking about now...not last month or the month before. If El Duque is feeling much better and pitching better RIGHT NOW, why not go with him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Oct 1, 2005 -> 03:53 PM) Since the playoffs are in a couple of days, I'm talking about now...not last month or the month before. If El Duque is feeling much better and pitching better RIGHT NOW, why not go with him? And you are basing this on one f***ing inning. I'll take the consistancy shown by LV over the last 4 months, thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 (edited) That's it .. I am tired of the Vizcaino fan club. Time to rip thru his numbers. What part of a 3.84 ERA over 68 IP impresses you? What part of a .278 BAA & a 1.50 WHIP impresses you? What part of 6W, 5L, & only 8H over 68 appearances impresses you? It's a 4 team season now so let's look at how he stacks up against the rest: v BOS: .320OBP .513SLG .833OPS 1L vs v LAA: .380OBP .489SLG .869OPS vs Now I don't know if it's dawned on you yet but these are our likely opponents on a road to the WS. That doesn't inspire confidence for a White Sox fan. Marte is a no-brainer. You can't go to battle with just 1 LH RP. You must have at least 2. But with the success of Hermy, Politte, Jenks, Vizcaino is NOT needed. Having El Duque & BMac on the roster for emergency long relief & starts is the wise move. Edited October 1, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 BeWareTheNewSox 5 Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 I'd easily take him over Viz or Marte, two guys who seem to have no problem folding under pressure, including starting to throw balls or hanging a fat one just because of crowd noise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 For the most part Ozzie has proven to be a guy who believes strongly in matchups. El Duque's #'s vs BOS & LAA are not much better but at least he has a long history of being a dominant pitcher in the post season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 QUOTE(YASNY @ Oct 1, 2005 -> 03:58 PM) And you are basing this on one f***ing inning. I'll take the consistancy shown by LV over the last 4 months, thank you. One inning??? Consistency??? QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Oct 1, 2005 -> 04:07 PM) That's it .. I am tired of the Vizcaino fan club. Time to rip thru his numbers. What part of a 3.84 ERA over 68 IP impresses you? What part of a .278 BAA & a 1.50 WHIP impresses you? What part of 6W, 5L, & only 8H over 68 appearances impresses you? It's a 4 team season now so let's look at how he stacks up against the rest: v BOS: .320OBP .513SLG .833OPS 1L vs v LAA: .380OBP .489SLG .869OPS vs Now I don't know if it's dawned on you yet but these are our likely opponents on a road to the WS. That doesn't inspire confidence for a White Sox fan. Marte is a no-brainer. You can't go to battle with just 1 LH RP. You must have at least 2. But with the success of Hermy, Politte, Jenks, Vizcaino is NOT needed. Having El Duque & BMac on the roster for emergency long relief & starts is the wise move. Thanks juggs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Oct 1, 2005 -> 03:07 PM) That's it .. I am tired of the Vizcaino fan club. Time to rip thru his numbers. What part of a 3.84 ERA over 68 IP impresses you? What part of a .278 BAA & a 1.50 WHIP impresses you? What part of 6W, 5L, & only 8H over 68 appearances impresses you? It's a 4 team season now so let's look at how he stacks up against the rest: v BOS: .320OBP .513SLG .833OPS 1L vs v LAA: .380OBP .489SLG .869OPS vs Now I don't know if it's dawned on you yet but these are our likely opponents on a road to the WS. That doesn't inspire confidence for a White Sox fan. Marte is a no-brainer. You can't go to battle with just 1 LH RP. You must have at least 2. But with the success of Hermy, Politte, Jenks, Vizcaino is NOT needed. Having El Duque & BMac on the roster for emergency long relief & starts is the wise move. What vizcaino fan club?? I don't think Viz is the best pitcher in the world but he's sure as hell better then the Duke at this point and that's a no brainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 exactly no one really likes vizcaino much but as the season went on he got better and with El Duque as the season went on he got worse. I posted Viz's era each month and it shows he has been a pretty decent reliever after the first 2 months of the season. El Duque has been crap since his fast start and even during the stretch he was shaky at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 I agree that this is the toughest call in a long time and why KW and Oz take the heat when moves backfire. It seems to me El's postseason experience is one of the big reasons we got him. I think he should be on the roster especially the way he was celebrating with Contreras after the win. If Contreras' heart isn't in it, we could be hosed in the postseason. Brandon's time is next year. Go with Duke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYGarland Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(GreenSox @ Oct 1, 2005 -> 07:12 AM) I'd like to see ElD on this playoff roster. He's a great postseason pitcher and could be a terror out of the pen for us. I agree, Viz should have been the odd man out. Marte needs to be our situational LH. Cotts/Politte should share the setup duties, while Hermansen/Jenks close it out. That leaves Viz, who to me, is pretty much useless if you already have El Duque/ MCcarthy for long/middle relief and/or extra innings. Not to mention, I don't trust Viz to get a big out if we need him, so to me his value is nill. Edited October 1, 2005 by CYGarland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(CYGarland @ Oct 1, 2005 -> 05:34 PM) Marte needs to be our situational LH NO, Marte can't get a damn lefty out to save his life, in no way, shape or form should he come in to get left handed hitters out, I don't give a damn if he throws with his left hand or not. Edited October 1, 2005 by Rowand44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYGarland Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Oct 1, 2005 -> 04:39 PM) NO, Marte can't get a damn lefty out to save his life, in no way, shape or form should he come in to get left handed hitters out, I don't give a damn if he throws with his left hand or not. We need 2 LH's out of the pen. Period.......BTW, vs LH's, Marte has a 2.35 era in 23 innings w/ 32 So's and giving up ONLY 1 Hr. Edited October 2, 2005 by CYGarland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 QUOTE(CYGarland @ Oct 1, 2005 -> 05:57 PM) We need 2 LH's out of the pen. Period. Why is that again?? I know Damaso is going to make the postseason roster, I just hate the fact it's because he throws with his left hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 QUOTE(CYGarland @ Oct 1, 2005 -> 05:57 PM) We need 2 LH's out of the pen. Period.......BTW, vs LH's, Marte has a 2.35 era in 23 innings w/ 32 So's and giving up ONLY 1 Hr. Lefties are hitting .261 with a .387 obp against Damaso, that is absolutely horrid. He can not get left handers out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYGarland Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Oct 1, 2005 -> 05:09 PM) Lefties are hitting .261 with a .387 obp against Damaso, that is absolutely horrid. He can not get left handers out. 32 K's in only 23 innings cannot be overlooked. Plus, Oz leaves him in there too long. He should only come in to face 1 or 2 lefties, and NO Rh's in crucial situations. I also think Cotts should be 1st choice, IF available........ But you do need 2 LH's to force the opposing manager to think about making moves. Edited October 2, 2005 by CYGarland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 QUOTE(CYGarland @ Oct 1, 2005 -> 06:25 PM) 32 K's in only 23 innings cannot be overlooked. Plus, Oz leaves him in there too long. He should only come in to face 1 or 2 lefties, and NO Rh's in crucial situations. I also think Cotts should be 1st choice, IF available........ But you do need 2 LH's to force the opposing manager to make moves. Who gives a crap about k's so he can strike them out when he rarely gets them out, problem is he can't get them out. A .387 obp for a lefty specialist..are you kidding me??? Damaso is much better against right handers because he can actually throw strikes to them. Also, needing two left handers to force the opposing manager to make moves is just crap in my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYGarland Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Oct 1, 2005 -> 05:29 PM) Who gives a crap about k's so he can strike them out when he rarely gets them out, problem is he can't get them out. A .387 obp for a lefty specialist..are you kidding me??? Damaso is much better against right handers because he can actually throw strikes to them. Also, needing two left handers to force the opposing manager to make moves is just crap in my mind. He has a much higher era, more walks, less SO's and more Hr's vs Rh's Edited October 2, 2005 by CYGarland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYGarland Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 My point is Damaso can at least come in and POSSIBLY k a tough LH in a pressure situation. What Can Viz do again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 QUOTE(CYGarland @ Oct 1, 2005 -> 06:34 PM) He has a much higher era, more walks, less SO's and more Hr's vs Rh's First off, era for a reliever against one side is probably the most pointless thing ever. he gets righties out for then lefties as they hit way worse against him and get on base. Secondly, you're right he does have more walks against right handers but for about two months now when he comes into face a lefty he walks or hits that batter and basically everyone here could tell you that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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