El Duque Odd Man Out

[DBAHO]

From the Southtown;

 

CLEVELAND — Ken Williams is doing the best he can to not show his hand — and with good reason.

According to a White Sox source, the general manager, along with pitching coach Don Cooper, broke the news to Orlando Hernandez on Friday that the veteran right-hander could be the odd man out as far as the Sox's postseason roster.

 

Williams and Co. knew Hernandez would not react well to the decision, and they were right, according to the source. That was one of the reasons Williams didn't want to release the team's playoff roster, so Hernandez wouldn't be questioned about it by the media. The other was to give the veteran a chance to show he could come out of the bullpen and be effective.

 

He did just that in Friday night's game at Cleveland, throwing a 1-2-3 seventh inning with two strikeouts.

 

The Sox were leaning on going with rookie Brandon McCarthy over Hernandez. The thinking is the younger McCarthy would be better suited to come out of the bullpen if needed. Hernandez goes through a much longer routine to get ready for an outing.

 

If the Sox do leave Hernandez off the roster, they won't be using a pitcher who has 17 career postseason appearances (14 starts), in which he's 9-3 with a 2.65 ERA. In the world of what-have-you-done-for-me lately, however, Hernandez was 9-9 with a 5.20 ERA for the Sox this season.

 

"We will have to discuss it a little more," Williams said. "It's pointing to one spot on the pitching staff, yes. We still have some more to talk about and argue about."

 

When asked if it was down to Hernandez or McCarthy, Williams did his best to walk the line.

 

"The thing that complicates it a bit for us is that in a normal situation, with no health concerns, we would go with 10 pitchers," Williams said. "But because you don't know the status of Dustin's (Hermanson's) back on a given day, we have to be mindful of that and carry 11 pitchers.

 

"The question really is: Do you go with the guy that has the experience and has not pitched or had very much success recently, or do you go with the young guy, who might be less equipped to deal with the stage but he's been lights out?"

[kevin57]

I remember Ozzie saying early in the season that he wouldn't look at baseball "tradition" (i.e., sticking with veterans no matter what) when choosing line-ups, and especially pitching rotations. We'll see if that happens. El Duque's day has come and gone.

 

Actually, I wonder why he keeps going with Marte. There are at least four arms in that bullpen much better than his.

 

[The Critic]

I would also go with BMac and Duque and leave Marte off the roster.

f*** "matchups" - the matchup I like is this:

Opposing Batter vs. Guy Who Can Get Him Out.

Marte hasn't consistently been a Guy Who Can Get Him Out for two years.

[greasywheels121]

I think that is the smartest baseball move for this team, however, I am disappointed El Duque doesnt get a shot. I really like the guy.

 

Agree. Ozzie and KW did the right thing. I absolutely hate seeing Duque having to miss the playoffs. That had to be a super tough decision to go with your brain and not your heart.

[Y2HH]

I'd have to say leaving Duque off the playoff roster is a huge mistake.

 

Not sure if anyone else noticed this, but when he came in to face the Indians last night, he was as SHARP as I've seen him all season. It's like he flipped a switch and said, "playoffs are coming".

 

I think this is simply a case where you go with Duque no matter what. In the playoffs, when batters and pitchers are nervous with anticipiation with every single pitch, experience like Duque's is huge. Regardless of how good someone like McCarthy is pitching right now, if I was a major league hitter, I'd rather face him than see El Duque, the king of the post season, stalking that mound...it would simply make the nervousness factor go up 10fold because of his reputation.

 

-y2

[The Critic]

I'd have to say leaving Duque off the playoff roster is a huge mistake.

 

Not sure if anyone else noticed this, but when he came in to face the Indians last night, he was as SHARP as I've seen him all season.  It's like he flipped a switch and said, "playoffs are coming".

 

I think this is simply a case where you go with Duque no matter what.  In the playoffs, when batters and pitchers are nervous with anticipiation with every single pitch, experience like Duque's is huge.  Regardless of how good someone like McCarthy is pitching right now, if I was a major league hitter, I'd rather face him than see El Duque, the king of the post season, stalking that mound...it would simply make the nervousness factor go up 10fold because of his reputation.

 

-y2

Can't disagree with this at all, especially since the idea behind getting Duque was at least in part because of his playoff experience and success. To not use him there seems to be a mistake to me as well.

The only thing I think differently is like I said before, I'd sit Marte.

[Carlo Paz]

Ozzie is as traditional a strategist as they come. Marte may be pitching like crap, and he may be more effective against righties, but Ozzie will keep him on the roster for those important lefty lefty matchups where you need a lefty to come in and be innefective against a lefty.

[The Critic]

Ozzie is as traditional a strategist as they come.  Marte may be pitching like crap, and he may be more effective against righties, but Ozzie will keep him on the roster for those important lefty lefty matchups where you need a lefty to come in and be innefective against a lefty.

That would be the page Ozzie stole from the Dusty Baker/Mike Remlinger playbook.....it was FUNNY when it happened to Dusty the Pitcher Killer, but now it feels like this:

:puke

 

 

edited to spell Remlinger correctly.

Edited October 1, 2005 by The Critic

[Kalapse]

I'm calling bulls*** on this one, the way Ozzie kept going to El Duque down the stretch when everybody knew that McCarthy was the better choice leads me to believe that Ozzie has some amount of faith in El Duque. I just don't see El Duque being left off the playoff roster. This is hardly a done deal seeing how it was reported by the Daily Southtown who have a history of getting things like this wrong.

[Kenkait Sox Fan]

El Duque would be the better option in the playoffs because of experience which the Sox will need in the playoffs. Don't discount the influence he has with Contreras. McCarthy's time will come in the future.

[GreenSox]

I'd like to see ElD on this playoff roster. He's a great postseason pitcher and could be a terror out of the pen for us.

[WilliamTell]

I totally understand why Hernandez wouldn't be on the roster, but it'll sadden me if that turns out to be true.

[greasywheels121]

I'm calling bulls*** on this one, the way Ozzie kept going to El Duque down the stretch when everybody knew that McCarthy was the better choice leads me to believe that Ozzie has some amount of faith in El Duque.  I just don't see El Duque being left off the playoff roster. This is hardly a done deal seeing how it was reported by the Daily Southtown who have a history of getting things like this wrong.

 

I don't want it to happen at the expense of BMac's. I believe BMac can be very valuable too, but I wouldn't really miss Marte or Viz, if they were taken off in place of Duque.

[fathom]

Marte is potentially a lot more valuable for the Sox than Duque would be in the playoffs. Against a team like the Angels, Marte could come in to face guys like Anderson and Finley. Do we really want Duque pitching in a tight spot? I thought Marte actually looked real sharp last night.

[DBAHO]

Marte's a lefty and with the previous success he's had, there's no way he's not going to be on the playoff roster.

 

I too wouldn't mind leaving Viz off and leaving El Duque and B-Mac on, but I don't think that's going to happen, plus Viz has been good for the 2nd half of the season, no real reason for him not to be there. It's a good problem to have really.

[TLAK]

Marte is potentially a lot more valuable for the Sox than Duque would be in the playoffs.  Against a team like the Angels, Marte could come in to face guys like Anderson and Finley.  Do we really want Duque pitching in a tight spot?  I thought Marte actually looked real sharp last night.

Take away the double and the single Marte gave up facing 5 batters and he was lights out. Marte's role is more valuable than the one El Duque would probably fill, but if you can't trust him then you can't use him and you might as well not bring him along.

 

Did any else notice in the box that Marte got a hold (he left with the lead) and Hermanson got a blown save for coming in with runners at 2nd and 3rd with no outs and allowing one run? Correct scoring but no justice.

[southsider2k5]

Take away the double and the single Marte gave up facing 5 batters and he was lights out.  Marte's role is more valuable than the one El Duque would probably fill, but if you can't trust him then you can't use him and you might as well not bring him along.

 

Did any else notice in the box that Marte got a hold (he left with the lead) and Hermanson got a blown save for coming in with runners at 2nd and 3rd with no outs and allowing one run?  Correct scoring but no justice.

 

One more reason the blown save is COMPLETE bulls***.

[Heads22]

Lets hope this doesn't mess with the Count.

[greasywheels121]

Lets hope this doesn't mess with the Count.

 

That thought entered my mind too.

[bjm676]

I'm calling bulls*** on this one, the way Ozzie kept going to El Duque down the stretch when everybody knew that McCarthy was the better choice leads me to believe that Ozzie has some amount of faith in El Duque.  I just don't see El Duque being left off the playoff roster. This is hardly a done deal seeing how it was reported by the Daily Southtown who have a history of getting things like this wrong.

 

 

I hope your right. The one guy I think would be expendable for the postseason would be Vizcaino. El Duque looked sharped in his 1 inning of relief yesterday and he could fill the void of Vizcaino.

[whitesoxmanager]

QUOTE(Y2HH @ Oct 1, 2005 -> 06:28 AM)

I'd have to say leaving Duque off the playoff roster is a huge mistake.

 

Not sure if anyone else noticed this, but when he came in to face the Indians last night, he was as SHARP as I've seen him all season.  It's like he flipped a switch and said, "playoffs are coming".

 

I think this is simply a case where you go with Duque no matter what.  In the playoffs, when batters and pitchers are nervous with anticipiation with every single pitch, experience like Duque's is huge.  Regardless of how good someone like McCarthy is pitching right now, if I was a major league hitter, I'd rather face him than see El Duque, the king of the post season, stalking that mound...it would simply make the nervousness factor go up 10fold because of his reputation.

 

-y2

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

not to mention that if we need a guy to go after the 10th inning in any game I always like throwing a starter in there and say it is your game to lose...

[SnB]

i'm so glad this isn't my job, this is some tough stuff to decide.

but as some already said.

marte?

viz?

i'd rather have duque on than either of those 2 guys.

[Sonik22]

i'm so glad this isn't my job, this is some tough stuff to decide.

but as some already said.

marte?

viz?

i'd rather have duque on than either of those 2 guys.

What the f***? Duque deserves to be on the playoff roster. Marte deserves to be on the playoff roster as much as KEVIN WALKER! Duke looked good last night and we will need him in the playoffs! Im pissed right now! f*** you Damaso Marte.

[Antonio Osuna]

Marte is potentially a lot more valuable for the Sox than Duque would be in the playoffs.  Against a team like the Angels, Marte could come in to face guys like Anderson and Finley.  Do we really want Duque pitching in a tight spot?  I thought Marte actually looked real sharp last night.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

See, the point is not to bring in somebody who will hit Anderson and give up a longball to Finley, but rather to bring in somebody who can get them out.

 

El Duque was good out of the bullpen yesterday. I hope that was a successful audition for the playoff roster.

[Chisoxfn]

Take away the double and the single Marte gave up facing 5 batters and he was lights out.  Marte's role is more valuable than the one El Duque would probably fill, but if you can't trust him then you can't use him and you might as well not bring him along.

 

Did any else notice in the box that Marte got a hold (he left with the lead) and Hermanson got a blown save for coming in with runners at 2nd and 3rd with no outs and allowing one run?  Correct scoring but no justice.

But you also have to look at the pitch that Victor Martinez hammered. It was basically dejavu to the last time Martinez hammered a double off Marte (in the prior series in Chicago). Both of his doubles were on terrible hitters pitches.