The Evil Kenny Williams

[NorthSideSox72]

Seems like a lot of people have missed their naps the last few days.

 

Maybe it's the silly season and all.

 

No matter what it is, I'm pretty damn happy that the Sox won it all, so that any of this conversation could even occur. I can just sit back and enjoy the mayhem.

 

KW is evil for not leaving room for Ross Gload!!!! He contributed to the 2005 WS team too, ya know!

 

... and stir it up once in a while.

[joeynach]

He has trash canned the best hitter I ever saw in Frank Thomas and traded the man threw the best single ½ inning a baseball I have ever seen in my life, in Orlando Hernandez.  He disposed of the epitome of the World Championship team in Aaron Rowand, a guy we watched grow and regress in Marte and a guy who took one for the team in April that haunted his entire season in Vizcaino.  He discarded Carl Everett who carried the offense at times.  He dismissed the man who hit a game winner in the first World Series the team went to in 46 years.

 

He is bringing in some big names to replace them but I miss my guys.  I waited all my 53 years for a championship and now 6 of the 25 heroes from the playoff roster plus Frank – a quarter of them – are gone and we haven’t even gotten to spring training yet.

 

The magic of 2005, of our guys, a team that nobody else respected but knew in its heart it could do it, a team that got great plays from the most unlikely sources is gone. The warmth I felt for the team going against all probabilities is being replaced fantasy baseball-like expected run production ratios.  When Williams starts his BS about the Sox being a family all the players need to do is look how Frank, Aaron, Orlando, Damaso, Luis, Geoff and Carl were all s*** canned within 2 months of winning the ring for them -great family.

 

When is Kenny going to stop killing the best thing that ever happened to the White Sox for a half century?

 

Kenny knows you cant repeat the magic, you cant repeat luck, and you cant repeat the career years posted by Garland, Cotts, Politte, Hermy, Contreras, and others. The sox with all their strength using the most commong statistical formula (the pythagorean formula) were projected to be a 90 win team. They won 99 games, they overachieved. That being said how do we win 99 games again without the intangibles and the balls bouncing our way. You upgrade, remove the weakest pieces from the whole season and improve them. Thome is an upgrade over Everett, Anderseon might even hit higer than Rowand's .270, Vazquez is an upgrade over the 5+ Era and 2 DL stint El Duque. Kenny knows that the sox did to win the world series might never happen again, magic, we got hot at the right time. The red sox and yankees were weak and cleveland with a better starting staff than us started out like 15-30. The ball may not bounce the sox way again and KW did what he had to do to keep this team competitive.

 

Rowand was great so we say thanks for all the great plays in center its time to move on. El Duque was great in 1/2 inning in boston so we say thank you now we need a btter #5 pitcher. You cant keep him around based on what he did in 1/2 inning. You need to get back the playoffs first and get back to the world series second. Those are not things easily done with a 5th starter who makes 20 of the normal 35 starts and posts a 5+ era. Thank You Blum, Rowand, El Duque, and Everett; it all came together and they were part of something special. Life goes on and another season approaches. The clock doesn't stop ticing just because we won the world series, everyone else out there is getting better too.

Edited December 16, 2005 by joeynach

[SSH2005]

Fine

Starting Pitching

White Sox > Blue Jays

 

Bullpen

Blue Jays > White Sox

 

Hitting

Blue Jays > White Sox

 

Fielding

Blue Jays > White Sox(sox are hot at the corners, but Blue Jays are hot up the middle which saves you more runs)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Blue Jays are better than us offensively? How?

 

DH: Jim Thome > Shea Hillenbrand

1B: Paul Konerko > Lyle Overbay

2B: Tadahito Iguchi > Orlando Hudson

3B: Joe Crede = Eric Hinske / Corey Koskie

SS: Jose Uribe = Russ Adams

LF: Scott Podsednik < Frank Catalanotto / Reed Johnson

CF: Brian Anderson < Vernon Wells

RF: Jermaine Dye > Alex Rios

C: A.J. Pierzynski = Gregg Zaun

 

[Rowand44]

The Blue Jays are better than us offensively?  How?

 

DH:  Jim Thome > Shea Hillenbrand

1B:  Paul Konerko > Lyle Overbay

2B:  Tadahito Iguchi > Orlando Hudson

3B:  Joe Crede = Eric Hinske / Corey Koskie

SS:  Jose Uribe = Russ Adams

LF:  Scott Podsednik

CF:  Brian Anderson

RF:  Jermaine Dye > Alex Rios

C:  A.J. Pierzynski = Gregg Zaun

 

Read the whole convo before you post.

[Rowand44]

Kenny knows you cant repeat the magic, you cant repeat luck, and you cant repeat the career years posted by Garland, Cotts, Politte, Hermy, Contreras, and others.  The sox with all their strength using the most commong statistical formula (the pythagorean formula) were projected to be a 90 win team.  They won 99 games, they overachieved. 

The pyyagorean is the most ridiculous thing ever imo, you can't tell me how many games a team is going to win by plugging in numbers. Sorry, nuh uh, doesn't work that way.

[SSH2005]

Read the whole convo before you post.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But 12 pages is too damn looong.

[Rowand44]

But 12 pages is too damn looong. 

 

 

 

 

 

[SSH2005]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah ok, he was comparing the 2006 Blue Jays' offense to the 2005 White Sox offense. Why? I don't know.

[TLAK]

Kenny knows you cant repeat the magic, you cant repeat luck, and you cant repeat the career years posted by Garland, Cotts, Politte, Hermy, Contreras, and others.  The sox with all their strength using the most commong statistical formula (the pythagorean formula) were projected to be a 90 win team.  They won 99 games, they overachieved.  That being said how do we win 99 games again without the intangibles and the balls bouncing our way.  You upgrade, remove the weakest pieces from the whole season and improve them.  Thome is an upgrade over Everett, Anderseon might even hit higer than Rowand's .270, Vazquez is an upgrade over the 5+ Era and 2 DL stint El Duque.  Kenny knows that the sox did to win the world series might never happen again, magic, we got hot at the right time.  The red sox and yankees were weak and cleveland with a better starting staff than us started out like 15-30.  The ball may not bounce the sox way again and KW did what he had to do to keep this team competitive.

 

Rowand was great so we say thanks for all the great plays in center its time to move on.  El Duque was great in 1/2 inning in boston so we say thank you now we need a btter #5 pitcher.  You cant keep him around based on what he did in 1/2 inning.  You need to get back the playoffs first and get back to the world series second.  Those are not things easily done with a 5th starter who makes 20 of the normal 35 starts and posts a 5+ era.  Thank You Blum, Rowand, El Duque, and Everett; it all came together and they were part of something special.  Life goes on and another season approaches.  The clock doesn't stop ticing just because we won the world series, everyone else out there is getting better too.

But

1. he kept all the guys you said had career years and won't repeat their performances.

2. is the net combination of Thome/Anderson/Owens better than Everett/Thomas/Rowand?

3. he already had a great backup plan for the 5th spot in BMac, so why Vazquez?

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 15, 2005 -> 10:58 PM)

Read the thread first before you want to make a general statement about me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have read the thread. This is not the first time you have used this comment against someone. You have used it at least 3 times that I know of. It is ridiculous to think that you know more about baseball than anyone else here.

[RockRaines]

I have read the thread. This is not the first time you have used this comment against someone. You have used it at least 3 times that I know of. It is ridiculous to think that you know more about baseball than anyone else here.

3 times=3 people.

Sorry.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 16, 2005 -> 03:02 PM)

3 times=3 people. 

Sorry.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

At least 3 times that I know of. And you have nothing to base their knowledge of baseball other than that they have a different opinion than yours about a particular subject. Pretty foolish to think you have a better understanding and knowledge of baseball just through that. Anyway, carry on.

[joeynach]

The pyyagorean is the most ridiculous thing ever imo, you can't tell me how many games a team is going to win by plugging in numbers.  Sorry, nuh uh, doesn't work that way.

 

Thats actually not the way the sox do it, just the most popular way. The sox do a different way where they numerize players into how many wins they are worth to come up with net gains or losses in the trades. And by the way Im not saying its a good prediction, Im not saying its right, Im just saying its an acceptable way to make a reasonable estimate. Im in a 500 level Stat and Probability class now, most people dont realize the power in statistical analysis and how it relates to trends. We have done dozens of problems from Genetic Disease, smoking, population, and even baseball. Its accurate for what is inputed, the problem is garbage in = garbage out, you cant predict every variable and lots of things change over the course of the year.

[NorthSideSox72]

Its accurate for what is inputed, the problem is garbage in = garbage out, you cant predict every variable and lots of things change over the course of the year.

 

That's one problem.

 

I would contend that in baseball, the real problem is a lack of variable scope. Too many variables that aren't accounted for numerically. Therefore, even if your input is accurate, it only deal with a small sliver of the total equation in reality.

[RockRaines]

At least 3 times that I know of. And you have nothing to base their knowledge of baseball other than that they have a different opinion than yours about a particular subject. Pretty foolish to think you have a better understanding and knowledge of baseball just through that. Anyway, carry on.

Does this mean you are going to stalk my PM box with 25 messages again?

 

Back on ignore

Edited December 16, 2005 by RockRaines

[joeynach]

But

1.  he kept all the guys you said had career years and won't repeat their performances. 

2.  is the net combination of Thome/Anderson/Owens better than Everett/Thomas/Rowand? 

3.  he already had a great backup plan for the 5th spot in BMac, so why Vazquez?

 

1. What I meant was that these guys had career years, the definiton being their breakout year, their best performance yet. They dont call it a career year if its expected over and over, it happens once. Im glad our guys did what they did I dont see Hermy starting out with a 0.00 ERA into mid may again and politte with a sub 1.00 ERA at the ASB. Our guys our good, but regression towards the mean (towards career averages) is more likely than a repeat performance of a career year.

 

2. The question is does Thome/Anderson make us better than Rowand/Everett, Thomas was out of the mix in 2005 for all I am concerned and not part of the regular deal. The answer is yes, or the sox would not have done this deal. Thome can be a flat out force and could put up numbers at the Cell we have never seen before. As for Rowand his .270 BA could be easily replaced even if Anderson hits .260 his rookies yea I beleive he can be consisten .280+ hitter with above average power. The real question is do our upgrades make us better than the players we lost and the Answer is yes. The game is a team game, Vazquez makes our whole team better as does Thome. Mackowiak too makes us a deeper more well rounded team.

 

3. Did he. McCarthy is still an unproven commodity. Can he pitch 200+ innings, can he be effective the whole time? Will the league adjust? The sox rotation amased more innings than ever before, Vazquez is insurance for being an inning eater. Having McCarthy as your 5th starter gives you 4 solid startes and 1 question mark/ rookie experiemnt. After winning the world series is it time to experiemnt with minor leaguers I dont thinks so. Its time to be the best you can be. 5 proven starters, who can go late into games and have the experience and talent to become a dominat piching force is what KW wanted. How do you make a great team better, YOU ADD TO YOUR STRENGTHS!!!

[TLAK]

1.  What I meant was that these guys had career years, the definiton being their breakout year, their best performance yet.  They dont call it a career year if its expected over and over, it happens once.  Im glad our guys did what they did I dont see Hermy starting out with a 0.00 ERA into mid may again and politte with a sub 1.00 ERA at the ASB.  Our guys our good, but regression towards the mean (towards career averages) is more likely than a repeat performance of a career year.

 

2.  The question is does Thome/Anderson make us better than Rowand/Everett, Thomas was out of the mix in 2005 for all I am concerned and not part of the regular deal.  The answer is yes, or the sox would not have done this deal.  Thome can be a flat out force and could put up numbers at the Cell we have never seen before.  As for Rowand his .270 BA could be easily replaced even if Anderson hits .260 his rookies yea I beleive he can be consisten .280+ hitter with above average power.  The real question is do our upgrades make us better than the players we lost and the Answer is yes.  The game is a team game, Vazquez makes our whole team better as does Thome.  Mackowiak too makes us a deeper more well rounded team.

 

3.  Did he.  McCarthy is still an unproven commodity.  Can he pitch 200+ innings, can he be effective the whole time?  Will the league adjust?  The sox rotation amased more innings than ever before, Vazquez is insurance for being an inning eater.  Having McCarthy as your 5th starter gives you 4 solid startes and 1 question mark/ rookie experiemnt.  After winning the world series is it time to experiemnt with minor leaguers I dont thinks so.  Its time to be the best you can be.  5 proven starters, who can go late into games and have the experience and talent to become a dominat piching force is what KW wanted.  How do you make a great team better,  YOU ADD TO YOUR STRENGTHS!!!

 

Point 1. I buy everything you say. But isn't everything you say still true whether the trades are made or not?

 

Point 2. Thomas hit 12 HR for this team, they counted. Everett hit 23. That’s 35 out of the DH position. Folks (including me) are hoping Thome returns to form and hits 40. So to pick up the theoretical 5 HR KW traded a proven CF. It will be interesting, but meaningless, to compare Thomas/Everett/Rowand to Thome/Anderson after 06 (but I hope we have better things to do).

 

I like Mackowiak, but KW traded something he doesn't have a replacement for, a serviceable LH reliever, while he let a pretty good player, Geoff Blum, walk away for nothing. I'll buy that Mackowiak is stronger than Blum straight up, but not that he is better than Blum + Marte. KW filled a need of his own making, I don't get it.

 

Point 3. From your post, I guess it's OK to experiment with a rookie CF when it suits your purpose in point 2 but not a with rookie pitcher in point 3. The ifs and questions your raise about BMAC are indisputable, nobody knows for sure how he will do. But we have a sample size of 8 seasons to indicate that Vazquez is pitcher with a golden arm and mediocre results. The guy is 89-93 lifetime; his career year is 16-11, last season he was 11-15 with a 4.42 ERA in the NL, yet you argue that he is a dominant pitcher worthy of the steep price KW paid?

 

The 2005 team won the central division by 6 games and went 11-1 in the post season. They didn't play in a fantasy league with statistics; they won because the guys did the jobs they were asked to do that day.

 

No one, even intelligent posters like you, Joeynach, has convinced me that the 06 team will be better or even as good.

[bmags]

for the record, the angels were pretty hot too going into the playoffs

[sayitaintso]

Just a simple question, how did this thread make it to 13 pages long?

Edited December 17, 2005 by sayitaintso

[hammerhead johnson]

Just a simple question, how did this thread make it to 13 pages long?

 

With spam. You know, kind of like what you're doing right now.