The Evil Kenny Williams

[SoxFan562004]

I understand when favorites leave, it sucks, but I did not want KW to stand pat and bring back the same team.

 

I don't think there is anyway to guarantee that the chemistry would be the same. What A-Row, Crede and A.J. were going to sing "Don't Stop Beliving" before every game? The championship dynamic changes everything.

 

KW has given the Sox six ML quality starters, most teams, barely have 4. That is incredible in my book.

 

The Cubs brought Gary Gaeiti (sp?) back after they won the division or a wild card (can't remember off the top of my head). It was obvious to everyone he was done and the Cubs caught lightning in a bottle for the last part of the season. But there he was, opening day, and all the Cubbie fans were happy, and he sucked. Crazy Carl was a professional hitter and did a lot to help the Sox in '05, but he was struggling at the end of the year, and Thome is an upgrade IMO.

 

If the Sox win the Series 50 more times in my lifetime it will never compare to how awesome '05 was because it was the first one, but that doesn't mean I don't trust KW to make the moves to keep the good times rolling

Edited December 15, 2005 by SoxFan562004

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Can a mod please lock this thread. To talk about KW's moves in this context is totally stupid.

[SnB]

Can a mod please lock this thread.  To talk about KW's moves in this context is totally stupid.

I'm not going to because he didn't do anything wrong. It's his opinion and he didn't go about it in any wrong way.

[kapkomet]

Nope. In this case, it's someone's opinion, no matter how wrong I think it is. Just don't attack HIM for it, attack the stupidity (IMO) of the post.

[drowninginflame]

this thread sucks

[Soxfest]

He has trash canned the best hitter I ever saw in Frank Thomas and traded the man threw the best single ½ inning a baseball I have ever seen in my life, in Orlando Hernandez.  He disposed of the epitome of the World Championship team in Aaron Rowand, a guy we watched grow and regress in Marte and a guy who took one for the team in April that haunted his entire season in Vizcaino.  He discarded Carl Everett who carried the offense at times.  He dismissed the man who hit a game winner in the first World Series the team went to in 46 years.

 

He is bringing in some big names to replace them but I miss my guys.  I waited all my 53 years for a championship and now 6 of the 25 heroes from the playoff roster plus Frank – a quarter of them – are gone and we haven’t even gotten to spring training yet.

 

The magic of 2005, of our guys, a team that nobody else respected but knew in its heart it could do it, a team that got great plays from the most unlikely sources is gone. The warmth I felt for the team going against all probabilities is being replaced fantasy baseball-like expected run production ratios.  When Williams starts his BS about the Sox being a family all the players need to do is look how Frank, Aaron, Orlando, Damaso, Luis, Geoff and Carl were all s*** canned within 2 months of winning the ring for them -great family.

 

When is Kenny going to stop killing the best thing that ever happened to the White Sox for a half century?

 

 

 

Waste of a thread move on get over it

[KevHead0881]

Pedro Lopez was a member of last years team. What will the reaction be if he doesn't make the team next year?

 

Seriously though, I loved the 2005 team and will remember them forever. But being sentimental is a terrible policy when it comes to running a baseball team. I realize that some were attached to the players on last years team...I'm with you there. Hell, it hurt me when Geoff Blum left.

 

But in the end, while I know its cliche (too drunk to find the correct spelling), I root for the name on the front of the jersey and not the one on the back. And to me, it seems quite obvious that KW significantly upgraded the team. And if Thome, Vazquez and Mackowiak perform to their capabilities, I will like them every bit as much as I liked the guys we just sent packing, if not more.

 

The great teams never rest on their laurels. In a perfect world, the 2005 guys would all come back and win it all again. But in the real world of baseball, you have to keep making yourself better, no matter how good you are. Its as simple as that.

 

Either way, its not like we've completely dismantled the team. Most of the guys will be back. And if they win, which they have a better chance of doing IMO, it won't take you long to warm up to them.

[hammerhead johnson]

Seriously though, I loved the 2005 team and will remember them forever.  But being sentimental is a terrible policy when it comes to running a baseball team.  I realize that some were attached to the players on last years team...I'm with you there.  Hell, it hurt me when Geoff Blum left.

 

But in the end, while I know its cliche (too drunk to find the correct spelling), I root for the name on the front of the jersey and not the one on the back.  And to me, it seems quite obvious that KW significantly upgraded the team.  And if Thome, Vazquez and Mackowiak perform to their capabilities, I will like them every bit as much as I liked the guys we just sent packing, if not more.

 

The great teams never rest on their laurels.  In a perfect world, the 2005 guys would all come back and win it all again.  But in the real world of baseball, you have to keep making yourself better, no matter how good you are.  Its as simple as that.

 

Either way, its not like we've completely dismantled the team.  Most of the guys will be back.  And if they win, which they have a better chance of doing IMO, it won't take you long to warm up to them.

 

See, this is a perfect response. Well done.

[Princess Dye]

teams break up. Kenny has improved our offense.... and he's making sure the pitching staff is not dominating the roster with overblown salaries.

 

seeing as how this is the same line of thinking he used when putting together last year's team...... don't you have to respect that?

 

 

funny how going cheap with Dye instead of Ordonez was never something fans castigated KW about.... yet here we are waving goodbye to Aaron Rowand, bringing in Jim Thome and Javier Vazquez........ and now KW is evil. unbelievable.

[nitetrain8601]

Buy the DVD if you miss your 2005 White Sox. It's called necessary improvements.

 

And BTW, Geoff Blum was going back west no matter what. He has a newborn that he hasn't seen much of.

[southsider2k5]

With all due respect this thread misses the big picture. This is exactly who Kenny Williams is as a GM. He is perpetually trying to make the team better, even if it is just incrementally. If anyone thought he was going to rest on his laurels just because we won the World Series, they were dead wrong. As a matter of a fact with something in the area of an extra $20 million to spend in 2006, we should have expected the flurry of moves, and with Williams history as a GM, we should expect the moves to by and large workout well.

 

To be honest the day Kenny quits being aggressive and obsessive is the day he needs to be fired. He isn't the nicest or the smartest GM in the world. He doesn't have the worlds biggest payroll, or the best scouting department. The one thing Williams does have is the guts to look past his personal ties and identify problems and idenify potential solutions, and then the guts to actually do something about them. Look it is much easier to sit and do nothing and win your 75-85 games a year, just ask Ron Schuler. The thing is you aren't going to get that from Kenny. Kenny is going for the brass ring on every pass. For better or for worse, this is the capitian of our ship. To expect him to quietly sail off into the sunset is foolish. I want Kenny Williams to do what he does best, make the cold decesions and keep trying to improve the Chicago White Sox.

[tonyho7476]

One more point and I'll shut up.

 

Javier Vazquez was 11-15 with a 4.52 ERA in the NL.

Orlando Hernandez was 9-9 with a 5.12 ERA in the AL.

 

Qualitatively that’s probably a slight edge for El Duke.  I can't argue when you thow in the innings diference (216 V 128) but on any given day, I don't see much better chance of winning with Vazquez than with El Duke.  Vazquez has the big name and big reputation but the couple times I saw him on TV last year he got lit up.

 

Now I will drink my milk, take my pill and go to sleep. 

 

 

If this wasn't a place for Sox die-hards/fans to get together, I would personally attack you. I would call you a Grade A Moron, or Stupidity Poopidy head. But I won't do those things. All Kenny has done is make this team better. he is also securing us for a run at this in the next 2-3 years.

 

If guys like Garland don't want to be on-board for the ride, then don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. We are moving forward.

 

I loved my 2005 White Sox and will never forget them. But I want to love my 2006 White Sox, and so far, I think I will.

[Harry Chappas]

What ever you guys do...Don't tell TLAK that David Caruso left NYPD Blue...He'll never forgive ABC.

 

SON OF A b****!!!! The first season just started on TNT, he leaves....god damnit! Ruined my day. Where is my KW voodoo doll.

[TLAK]

Wow, what a response, if some of these posters had as many brains as pimples I'd be concerned.

 

The last team to repeat was the 2000 New York Yankees. They changed the 5th starter, everyone else who played a lot was back. They also won in 1998 with the same group but had not added Clemens yet so David Wells was there. The 2002 Angels stood pat and didn't repeat , but they went through injuries that would sink anybody. So I don't buy that a Championship team absolutely must make massive changes to repeat.

 

We will never know if the 2005 group was good enough to repeat. The 2006 team might be as good or better but it is a different team.

 

I especially don't like bringing in Vazquez who I think is overrated and overhyped. I don't see where the innings to replace Marte and Vizcaino's situations are going to come from.

 

I'm saddened by all this, and I question KW's wisdom.

[tonyho7476]

Wow, what a response, if some of these posters had as many brains as pimples I'd be concerned. 

 

The last team to repeat was the 2000 New York Yankees.  They changed the 5th starter, everyone else who played a lot was back.  They also won in 1998  with the same group but had not added Clemens yet so David Wells was there.   The 2002 Angels stood pat and didn't repeat , but they went through injuries that would sink anybody.     So I don't buy that a Championship team absolutely must make massive changes to repeat. 

 

We will never know if the 2005 group was good enough to repeat.  The 2006 team might be as good or better but it is a different team. 

 

I especially don't like bringing in Vazquez who I think is overrated and overhyped.  I don't see where the innings to replace Marte and Vizcaino's situations are going to come from.

 

I'm saddened by all this, and I question KW's wisdom.

 

Maybe you should join the North Side of town. They like un-knowing fans.

 

Come on man. You really think the exact same team could do it again? They had a lot of things go their way. They offense was bad and needed an upgrade. We got Thome, but lost Rowand. Ok, Rowand's bat was not too great. His D was good, but Brian Anderson will be able to do it. Kenny wouldn't have made the trade if he felt any different. Prospects need to be played or traded. That's what we are doing.

 

And El Duque sucked last year, when he pitched.

 

I'm starting to think you need to take your medication. And FYI, I took mine.

Edited December 15, 2005 by tonyho7476

[TLAK]

Maybe you should join the North Side of town.  They like un-knowing fans.

 

Come on man.  You really think the exact same team could do it again?  They had a lot of things go their way.  They offense was bad and needed an upgrade.  We got Thome, but lost Rowand.  Ok, Rowand's bat was not too great.  His D was good, but Brian Anderson will be able to do it.  Kenny wouldn't have made the trade if he felt any different.  Prospects need to be played or traded.  That's what we are doing.

 

And El Duque sucked last year, when he pitched.

 

I'm starting to think you need to take your medication.  And FYI, I took mine.

No reason to repeat the whole thread, I respect all your opinions and everybody has had ther say. I take solace in the fact that Steve Phillips loves these moves.

[Guest JimH]

When you win the WS and you do it by winning 11 out of 12 you simply keep the same team in tact. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have been a fan as long as you and TLAK, and this is one of the Top 10 Dumbest Statements I have seen on this website.

[nitetrain8601]

Wow, what a response, if some of these posters had as many brains as pimples I'd be concerned. 

 

The last team to repeat was the 2000 New York Yankees.  They changed the 5th starter, everyone else who played a lot was back.  They also won in 1998  with the same group but had not added Clemens yet so David Wells was there.  The 2002 Angels stood pat and didn't repeat , but they went through injuries that would sink anybody.    So I don't buy that a Championship team absolutely must make massive changes to repeat. 

 

We will never know if the 2005 group was good enough to repeat.  The 2006 team might be as good or better but it is a different team. 

 

I especially don't like bringing in Vazquez who I think is overrated and overhyped.  I don't see where the innings to replace Marte and Vizcaino's situations are going to come from.

 

I'm saddened by all this, and I question KW's wisdom.

 

We didn't overgo a massive rehaul. We still have 4 of our starters. We have the main staples in our bullpen, we still have TIMO!!! We're making necessary adjustments to insure that our team has a chance next year. Let's be honest, there was tons of luck involved last year. And I mean tonsss. You don't expect us to get a lead in the first 30+ games we play this year, do you? I certainly don't. Our offense also pretty much sucked last year until the playoffs. That needed an upgrade. We upgraded with minimal change. Last year's team wasn't going to win it again this year. I can guarentee that. All the teams were getting better, we couldn't afford to just stand pat. Hell, Toronto would've been a better team than us. Detroit probably would've been right with us next year if we kept the same team.

[RME JICO]

Last year the Sox lineup did not scare anyone. Most teams felt that if they could get a couple of runs off our starters that they could win, and that is basically what happened all year excluding the playoffs.

 

So KW keeps the core of the team intact while upgrading specific targeted areas:

 

He adds a LH power bat in Thome (who replaced Carl at DH), who will make the players around him better. The combo of Dye, Konerko, and Thome will immediately be one of the top 3-4-5 punches in the game, and they are playing half of their games at the Cell.

 

He gives the Sox the best bench player in the game in Mack.

 

He upgrades the pitching staff by going from El Duque to Vazquez, and gives himself flexibility to move Garland or Contreras if he cannot sign them to a new deal. If he can sign one of them to a multi year deal, we will have the same pitching staff thru at least 2007. This pitching staff would have 4 pitchers with 200+ innings and B-Mac as #5. If he doesn't move Jon or Count, the starting rotation will have 5 pitchers with 200+ innings.

 

He rids the bullpen of the weakest links in Viz and Marte. So these are more addition by subtraction moves.

 

He retains the core players of Konerko, Dye, Pods, AJ, Gooch, Uribe, Crede, while only losing Arow from the starting defensive lineup.

 

So the way I see it, KW is setting this team up not only for a WS run in 2006, but 2007 and beyond.

[AnthraxFan93]

You would think I started this thread! But, I have loved every move that KW has done. I hated to see Rowand go, I was a fan since 01. But, I want to see what Anderson can do as well. I might have b**** about the deal, but after thinking about it.. You can't pass it up.

[Steve Bartman's my idol]

He has trash canned the best hitter I ever saw in Frank Thomas and traded the man threw the best single ½ inning a baseball I have ever seen in my life, in Orlando Hernandez.  He disposed of the epitome of the World Championship team in Aaron Rowand, a guy we watched grow and regress in Marte and a guy who took one for the team in April that haunted his entire season in Vizcaino.  He discarded Carl Everett who carried the offense at times.  He dismissed the man who hit a game winner in the first World Series the team went to in 46 years.

 

He is bringing in some big names to replace them but I miss my guys.  I waited all my 53 years for a championship and now 6 of the 25 heroes from the playoff roster plus Frank – a quarter of them – are gone and we haven’t even gotten to spring training yet.

 

The magic of 2005, of our guys, a team that nobody else respected but knew in its heart it could do it, a team that got great plays from the most unlikely sources is gone. The warmth I felt for the team going against all probabilities is being replaced fantasy baseball-like expected run production ratios.  When Williams starts his BS about the Sox being a family all the players need to do is look how Frank, Aaron, Orlando, Damaso, Luis, Geoff and Carl were all s*** canned within 2 months of winning the ring for them -great family.

 

When is Kenny going to stop killing the best thing that ever happened to the White Sox for a half century?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Ummm...KW has IMPROVED THE TEAM!!!!

 

[Mr. Showtime]

This topic kind of reminds me of what's great about the Internet. Before Al Gore invented it in his garage, there'd be no possible way for idiots like this to get out their entire complete-bulls*** point of view.

 

After the first few sentences, once seeing where this rant was going, any reasonable individuals near them would either: (1) drown them out by mentally picturing the latest vagina they saw; (2) laugh hysterically midway through, thinking the rant was a joke, but, upon seeing he's serious, consider his options to get new friends; (3) stop him with a punch to the throat; (4) shake your head back and forth, wave a finger, and shout out "Oh no, you di'nt!"

 

Thank God for the Internet. Without it, you would continually be questioning yourself if you were smarter than the average person. With it, you're still not sure if you're smarter than the average, but you know you're smarter than some.

 

You sir, are a great man.

[AddisonStSox]

Last guy I would have expected to see this thread from.

 

53 years of age and you're crying about losing "your guys?"

 

Baseball is a business. To think Williams is destroying a Championship roster just for the hell of it is pretty silly if you ask me. I would think you've been around long enough to see that keeping rosters in-tact just for the sake of keeping rosters in-tact is asssinine. 2006 is a new year, with a new team. You'll come to love them just as much as the boys from 2005 and we'll be in a pennant chase in no time.

 

Buy the Sox DVDs, take out your baseball card collection, and bring out the kleenex.

 

Evil Kenny Williams. Oh my.

[zach23]

look my only two points are really:

 

1.  the team that just won the WS should be given the same chance to make the run the next year.  if the team starts off gangbusters by the allstar break then great lets keep rolling, but if the team starts off poorly and we are subject to missing the playoffs, then that is the time to consider making moves.  of course it might be too late and the costs too high, but that is the way i wouldve respected this group of guys.  this is not the decision that the CWS management made.  so be it.

 

2.  how does one in life really know when he is making the wrong moves?  for all it appears the moves have been done in faith of improvement.  KW and the whitesox have yet to face this challenge.  some of us dont like trading away proven WS winners for question marks.  thats all.

 

1. This is how the Sox operated for years and it usually burned them. Instead of going into the season with question marks and holes they are now trying to fill those possible holes proactively, while also looking to keep them filled in the future. Waiting around to see what happens is dumb, not only in baseball but in any business. If you are not proactive, eventually you will fall behind and it will be that much harder to get back on top.

The guys from the 2005 team got plenty of respect. They were honored with a huge parade and all received a nice World Series share. They are professionals and they realize that guys get traded all the time. Some day most will be invited back to work in the organization again like the current Sox coaches, broadcasters, etc. I am sure they will all be honored like the 1983 team was on their 20th anniversary.

 

2. Nobody knows if the moves made will work, but I am sure they were done after carefully analyzing the current team and what was needed to keep getting better. I doubt that KW and his staff are just picking names out of a hat as far as who to trade and who to pick up. After doing all the right things last offseason to make this team a champion, I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he knows what he is doing.

What you are proposing is similar to coming up with the bases loaded and two outs, down one run, and hoping for a walk to tie the game. You want to just stand there and hope it all goes well. KW is up there swinging away to win. He may go down swinging and lose, but at least he is going to take it upon himself to try and win.

 

After watching so many Sox teams just wait and hope to get better, I would much rather watch this new approach of going out and getting more talent to build around what is already a pretty good core. It works for the Yankees and Braves every year.

Also, loyalty to the players means nothing. If these players that were traded happened to be free agents this year and were offered more money from some other team, I would bet almost all of them would leave in a heartbeat and care very little about returning to try and repeat. I used to get attached to certain players when I was younger and would get upset when they were gone. All I want now is to see the Sox field the best team possible each year to keep winning. I can always see those old players again at Soxfest someday in the future.

[S720]

Call him EVIL all you want, but on Silvy and Carmen show with Jayson Start, all of them are raving and praising all the moves that Kenny William has made this offseason.

 

Jayson further mentioned, "I am not saying the White Sox are a lock to win it all again, but with all the RIGHT moves that Kenny has made, they are currently better than the Yankees, Red Sox, Indians, Twins. They are the best right now in the American League!"

 

Silvy and Carmen also agreed with Mariotti that Kenny IS a GM gem!