Gammons praises Sox - Not Red Sox

[Felix]

1. Schuerholz. No question in my mind.

2. Beane. I don't really care what you say about his amount of titles, but look at what he has to work with and look at what he gets. Its amazing.)

3. Probably KW.

[witesoxfan]

I think I'd rate Schuerholz ahead of KW.  He's won an insane amount division titles in a row, while still keeping a stacked farm system.

 

Being able to do it like Schuerholz has over an extended period of time is amazing...but some of that also has to do with longevity. It could be like saying Nolan Ryan was a better pitcher than Sandy Koufax because he won more games...but it could end up being like saying Nolan Ryan was better than Jack Morris, which is true.

 

Kind of a hard point to argue at times, depending upon how you view the situation. Are you looking at how he goes about improving the team and the situations he puts his team in?...or are you looking about how he builds the team, or the amount of games/titles he wins while the team is under his reign?

 

I tend to look at it from the former point of view...but that's just kind of how I look at things.

[Harry Chappas]

My two cents

 

1. KW is showing with money what you can get. Last year was when he earned everything and made his job easy. I will say this, the guy (Wilder?) giving him advice as far as minor league players is incredible look at Jenks, Cotts, Uribe, etc. He also gives up guys that are not the world beaters they were thought of Anthony Webster.

 

2. Shurholtz has Cox. That is a huge help.

 

3. Beane, I hate him but gotta admit he wins.

 

4. Theo and Cashman have the money, like Hendry. They are on a different level like KW this offseason, riskier moves are easier to make.

[RME JICO]

If we are talking about who is the best GM right now, it is KW hands down. Beane has done a great job of creating above average teams that burn out. I repeat, they have never even seen the ALCS since he has been the GM. Until then he is not a Top 3 GM. Schuerholz has been great over a longer period than any other current GM, but the Braves have not won a thing since 1999 when they lost the WS, so he is 2nd. Then you take Shapiro, and he used a $40 million payroll to field a 90+ win team. He is #3 right now.

[greg775]

I'm glad Gammons thinks the Thome move was good.

He must think he can come back from the injury.

[kevin57]

All this talk about great GM's and nobody, but nobody has cited Jim Hendry?

[chitownsportsfan]

Yea, Jim Hendry is like the parent that buys his wild son an overpriced muscle car for his birthday only to see him crash it while the more efficient Honda sits in the garage. Fill in Hendry, Jaque Jones, Marquiss Grissom, and Dusty anywhere you want in the analogy. I suggest Hendry as parent, Dusty as son, and Jones and Grissom as the muscle car. I was going to suggest a cheap yet good youngster in the Cubs outfield for the Honda, but couldn't find one.

[Dam8610]

Yea, Jim Hendry is like the parent that buys his wild son an overpriced muscle car for his birthday only to see him crash it while the more efficient Honda sits in the garage.  Fill in Hendry, Jaque Jones, Marquiss Grissom, and Dusty anywhere you want in the analogy.  I suggest Hendry as parent, Dusty as son, and Jones and Grissom as the muscle car.  I was going to suggest a cheap yet good youngster in the Cubs outfield for the Honda, but couldn't find one.

 

I think Matt Murton is your Honda.

[GreenSox]

Top 3 GM in the game.  He's not the best trader, or the best when it comes to negotiating, but when the dust settles, he has had a great team on the field going into the season the past 2 years, with virtually no holes.  He has gone the route of putting just enough offense on the field the past two years while overloading with pitching, and it worked extremely well last year, and I see no reason it will not work again next year. 

 

Lots of kudos to KW.

That's kind of how I see him as well.

[TLAK]

I’ll say one thing about KW, he’s got guts.

 

Rowand, Haigwood and Gio Gonzalez for Thome. Thome’s coming off surgery so there are already questions, KW then burned his bridges to Everett and Thomas, and put all the eggs in one basket. Arow’s spot is going to a rookie while the two young LH’s might turn out to be pretty good down the road. If Anderson and/or Owens struggle and Thome has any type of injury KW could look pretty bad.

 

El Duque, Vizcaino and Young for Javier Vazquez. Vazquez is a sub .500 pitcher making $11,000,000 a year. He has driven his last 3 managers crazy with his inconsistency; it’s a good thing Don Cooper is so well entrenched because this guy is tailor made to get coaches fired. He sent away proven major league pitching and a very hot prospect that could be good for years to come. This is the riskiest deal of all, Vazquez could win a Cy Young or end up the 10th pitcher.

 

Marte for Mackowiak. This move was forced by Marte’s blow up with Ozzie last season, I don’t know how the trade will workout but KW got fine value for a player that everyone in baseball knew he had to trade. But should Marte regain his form, nobody will remember that.

 

Coming off a World Series win Williams didn’t have to make any of these moves. The White Sox could have just sat back and cashed the season ticket deposit checks. I’ve voiced criticism of some of these moves, but one thing I can’t deny is, KW has balls.

[YASNY]

I’ll say one thing about KW, he’s got guts.

 

Rowand, Haigwood and Gio Gonzalez for Thome.  Thome’s coming off surgery so there are already questions, KW then burned his bridges to Everett and Thomas, and put all the eggs in one basket.  Arow’s spot is going to a rookie while the two young LH’s might turn out to be pretty good down the road.  If Anderson and/or Owens struggle and Thome has any type of injury KW could look pretty bad.

 

El Duque, Vizcaino and Young for Javier Vazquez.  Vazquez is a sub .500 pitcher making $11,000,000 a year.   He has driven his last 3 managers crazy with his inconsistency; it’s a good thing Don Cooper is so well entrenched because this guy is tailor made to get coaches fired.  He sent away proven major league pitching and a very hot prospect that could be good for years to come.  This is the riskiest deal of all, Vazquez could win a Cy Young or end up the 10th pitcher.

 

Marte for Mackowiak.  This move was forced by Marte’s blow up with Ozzie last season, I don’t know how the trade will workout but KW got fine value for a player that everyone in baseball knew he had to trade.  But should Marte regain his form, nobody will remember that.

 

Coming off a World Series win Williams didn’t have to make any of these moves.  The White Sox could have just sat back and cashed the season ticket deposit checks.  I’ve voiced criticism of some of these moves, but one thing I can’t deny is, KW has balls.

 

Damn right he has balls ... and that's the very reason we are celebrating, for the first time in our lifetimes, a White Sox World Series Winner!!! KW proved himself to me when he traded for David Wells. It didn't work out, but he showed a willingness to "go for it" which I never saw out of Schuler. I've been a fan of KW ever since that trade, and he's continued to "go for it". That's why I sit and look at the moves he's made this offseason with a smile on my face. They may not work out, but he's not resting on his laurels. He's going for it again.

 

Rock on, KW!

Edited January 8, 2006 by YASNY

[chitownsportsfan]

But should Marte regain his form, nobody will remember that.

 

That's the thing about 3rd and 4th relievers: every year half of them "find their form" and half of them "lose their form". Middle relief guys like Marte are a dime a dozen (paging Cliff Politte and Dustin Hermanson), and getting rid of his high salary for Mackowiak was a coup for Kenny Williams and a good move for the Padres as well.

 

Marte is a lefty, which raises his value somewhat, but the Sox already have Cotts and nobody should be paying an aging LOOGY with control problems 4 million a year, especially not a headcase that almost quit on the team.

 

I bet Marte "finds his form" next year, and that will be fine with me. The Padres bullpen needed him much more than we did. The utility of the trade makes sense for both teams, as they needed a bullpen guy, we needed a versatile bench guy that provided some insurance in case Crede's back flairs up for a long stretch.

[witesoxfan]

If we are talking about who is the best GM right now, it is KW hands down.  Beane has done a great job of creating above average teams that burn out.  I repeat, they have never even seen the ALCS since he has been the GM.  Until then he is not a Top 3 GM.  Schuerholz has been great over a longer period than any other current GM, but the Braves have not won a thing since 1999 when they lost the WS, so he is 2nd.  Then you take Shapiro, and he used a $40 million payroll to field a 90+ win team.  He is #3 right now.

 

I had a lengthy post written out, and then I reread what you said.

 

A's payroll/wins

2000 - $35,821,333 - 91 wins(first place, AL West)

2001 - $39,070,750 - 102 wins(second, AL West, first, AL Wild Card)

2002 - $48,018,317 - 103 wins(first, AL West)

2003 - $57,771,334 - 96 wins(first, AL West)

2004 - $59,112,167 - 91 wins(second, AL West)

 

Beane looks better to me than Shapiro. The Indians payroll is so low right now due to all the non-arbitration eligible players right now.

 

If you're reasoning for Shapiro being 3 is due to him winning 90+ games with a $40+ mill payroll, than I think that's a little shortsighted...any team under the right circumstances can have a sub $40 million payroll, have everything click, and find themselves at 90 wins. Hell, if you are going to say Shapiro is right there due to the $40 mill payroll thing, then Larry Beinfest is near the top as well...afterall, he won the World Series in 2003 with a team whose payroll was about $45 million.