Sox vs Angels 3/12

[SSH2005]

Tim McCarver must be giving him broadcasting advice.

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[Timoperezrulez]

O great, the Bajaneru(or however you spell it) for Cintron deal is already starting to backfire!

[SSH2005]

O great, the Bajaneru(or however you spell it) for Cintron deal is already starting to backfire!

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I wouldn't want him in our bullpen either. We need to add an established bullpen guy.

[bulokis]

I wonder if Redding or Tracey would take Hermy's place if he is hurt?

 

With Hermy's back being an issue, we definitely need somebody to help our bullpen. I would take Tracey instead of Redding. Duaner Sanchez would look good in our bullpen but I think the mets gave up a lot to get him.

 

Whatever happened to Josh Fields the pitcher? He looked great last year in spring training games that I saw on TV.

[southsider2k5]

I wonder if Redding or Tracey would take Hermy's place if he is hurt?

 

Call me silly, but as good as some of the lefties have been, we might leave camp with two of the guys in competition for the finaly lefty spot. We know Ozzie loves his match ups, so it isn't crazy.

[SSH2005]

Recap | Box score Edited March 12, 2006 by SSH2005

[jphat007]

I wasn't saying one of those two or anybody else. I was just saying one of those two. I don't expect KW to deal for anybody before the beginning of the season.

[SSH2005]

I wasn't saying one of those two or anybody else. I was just saying one of those two. I don't expect KW to deal for anybody before the beginning of the season.

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KW just traded for a backup infielder which he even called a luxury pickup. Why wouldn't he trade for a reliever if one of our current guys looks injured and it's affecting his pitching? Afterall, our bullpen will have more of an impact on our season than Alex Cintron will.

Edited March 12, 2006 by SSH2005

[qwerty]

KW just traded for a backup infielder which he even called a luxury pickup.  Why wouldn't he trade for a reliever if one of our current guys looks injured and it's affecting his pitching?  Afterall, our bullpen will have more of an impact on our season than Alex Cintron will.

 

Because the sox may have to give talent/money/or take money on... in return for a player.

[SSH2005]

Because the sox may have to give talent/money/or take money on... in return for a player.

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I know that. But it's not like KW is afraid to give up talent to fill holes and the payroll has expanded. I just don't see KW adding a luxury guy like Cintron that we really didn't need and then not even filling a known hole in the bullpen.

Edited March 12, 2006 by SSH2005

[qwerty]

I know that.  But it's not like KW is afraid to give up talent to fill holes and the payroll has expanded.  I just don't see KW adding a luxury guy like Cintron that we really didn't need and then not even filling a known hole in the bullpen.

 

It was just what jphat said yesterday...

[SSH2005]

It was just what jphat said yesterday...

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Sorry, I missed out on that.

[Flash Tizzle]

Funny--I recall expressing legitimate concern (not just empty whining and complaining) with our bullpen when Vizcaino and Marte departed, and countless Soxtalk members brushed me off.

 

"Don't worry. PLENTY of time before the season starts"

"Is it April 2 yet?"

Give the lefty garbage pile a chance!

 

These among other sarcastic comments which deflect attention from the actual issue were used. Now I realize we're replacing McCarthy with Vizcaino/Marte in the bullpen role, and for either, it's an upgrade. Hell, I'd grudgingly accept Lopez in his situational role if it meant our remaining bullpen could be counted upon. However, with ANY injury or ineffectiveness to Hermanson our bullpen will suffer. His spring training outings haven't convinced me otherwise.

 

If Hawk himself is voicing concern during this afternoon's game, you know it's a problem. White Sox need stablizing pitchers in their pen. I figure with the often unpredictable success of relief pitchers year-to-year someone will endure a poor year. Or if not a 'poor year,' a substantial dropoff from previous success. Without Hermanson, you're expecting Jenks/Politte/Cotts to mirror their 05' numbers. This, IMO, is unlikely.

 

I'll say this right now, becaue I know several people are shaking in anger from my concerns. NO, I'm not overly critical of Williams for failing to use his physic abilities to forecast possible bullpen problem. NO, I'm not bailing on the team before the season begins. I simply believe with the remaining bullpen spot likely belonging to some scrub, Hermanson's health issues, and possible regression of key pitchers, our bullpen may not be very dependable.

[SSH2005]

Hermanson actually showing that he isn't healthy changes things. If he was healthy, I wouldn't propose that KW should trade for another reliever. But it's obvious that Hermanson isn't 100%.

[jphat007]

Because the sox may have to give talent/money/or take money on... in return for a player.

 

A hell of a lot more than they gave up or took on for Alex Cintron. Sorry you didn't realize that.

 

Much easier to get Alex Cintron than it is to get a decent bullpen guy.

[SSH2005]

A hell of a lot more than they gave up or took on for Alex Cintron. Sorry you didn't realize that. 

 

Much easier to get Alex Cintron than it is to get a decent bullpen guy.

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When has KW ever worried about the cost of players? If we have a hole, KW will fill it before the season starts. Right now, it looks like we have a hole in the bullpen. We need another reliever if Hermanson shows no signs of improving health-wise and stuff-wise.

[Flash Tizzle]

Hermanson actually showing that he isn't healthy changes things.  If he was healthy, I wouldn't propose that KW should trade for another reliever.  But it's obvious that Hermanson isn't 100%.

Personally, Hermanson's health was a concern prior to Spring Training. He's been a pitcher I've watched last year and wondered, "how are hitters not destroying him?" He threw early 90's without deception or a devastating forkball BEFORE back injuries became apparent. I'd pencil him in as someone capable of posting an ERA around 4, low K/9 totals, high WHIP if he were healthy. With this back injury, it's only intensifies the problem.

[SSH2005]

Personally, Hermanson's health was a concern prior to Spring Training. He's been a pitcher I've watched last year and wondered, "how are hitters not destroying him?" He threw early 90's without deception or a devastating forkball BEFORE back injuries became apparent. I'd pencil him in as someone capable of posting an ERA around 4, low K/9 totals, high WHIP if he were healthy. With this back injury, it's only intensifies the problem.

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Well, if Hermanson could be counted on for around a 4.00 ERA we probably wouldn't need another arm. But now it looks like he will be lucky to put up an ERA under 5 so we need another arm.

[quickman]

look I too want to jump off a bridge too, but many teams will make cuts, players will become available, and KW will make a trade even if he has to over pay. Who the hell cares about overpaying anyway. get the player who can pitch in the pen. we are two relievers away from winning this thing again, i don't think kw will sit tight. We will not go into the year two arms down in the pen.

[SSH2005]

look I too want to jump off a bridge too, but many teams will make cuts, players will become available, and KW will make a trade even if he has to over pay. Who the hell cares about overpaying anyway. get the player who can pitch in the pen. we are two relievers away from winning this thing again, i don't think kw will sit tight. We will not go into the year two arms down in the pen.

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Agreed.

[jphat007]

When has KW ever worried about the cost of players?  If we have a hole, KW will fill it before the season starts.  Right now, it looks like we have a hole in the bullpen.  We need another reliever if Hermanson shows no signs of improving health-wise and stuff-wise.

 

I don't know if 1) Anybody would want to give up a decent reliever at all, especiallly to a WS contender like us 2)it could be acquired within reasonable means. KW had to ask for the little extra to sign Cintron. I'm not sure he could get much more and it would take more than the 1.6 million to get a decent bullpen guy.

 

I'm just saying don't count on any guy with an ERA in the 3s of late. More like a flyer on a guy with a 5+ ERA.

[Flash Tizzle]

look I too want to jump off a bridge too, but many teams will make cuts, players will become available, and KW will make a trade even if he has to over pay. Who the hell cares about overpaying anyway. get the player who can pitch in the pen. we are two relievers away from winning this thing again, i don't think kw will sit tight. We will not go into the year two arms down in the pen.

What irritates me is how the Sox always seem to be in a position where they're the team overpaying. Why can't someone offer us a substantial package for once? When it seems we have a surplus of talent, whether it's offense or pitching, there's never a Kenny Williams out there willing to overpay. Or even offer fair value. Sox never seem to be in a good position to trade talent. I just want one Liriano/Nathan trade for our club. Just one.

 

It would be great if some team desparate for starting pitching looked at Contreras and overpayed. One which made the possibility of injuries to our starting pitchers easy to overlook.

[SSH2005]

I don't know if 1) Anybody would want to give up a decent reliever at all, especiallly to a WS contender like us 2)it could be acquired within reasonable means. KW had to ask for the little extra to sign Cintron. I'm not sure he could get much more and it would take more than the 1.6 million to get a decent bullpen guy.

 

I'm just saying don't count on any guy with an ERA in the 3s of late. More like a flyer on a guy with a 5+ ERA.

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I agree with you about getting a big name reliever. I don't think teams will trade those guys before the season even starts. I'm thinking of a guy who's on the bubble. A guy I would have loved to claim off waivers was Joel Peralta when the Angels DFA'd him but the Royals obviously had waiver priority over us and snatched him up. But he's the type of guy I see us trading for -- a guy with good stuff who hasn't done too much in the majors yet.

Edited March 13, 2006 by SSH2005

[quickman]

I don't know if 1) Anybody would want to give up a decent reliever at all, especiallly to a WS contender like us 2)it could be acquired within reasonable means. KW had to ask for the little extra to sign Cintron. I'm not sure he could get much more and it would take more than the 1.6 million to get a decent bullpen guy.

 

I'm just saying don't count on any guy with an ERA in the 3s of late. More like a flyer on a guy with a 5+ ERA.

 

 

I respectfully disagree, KW stole cintron. "the Baj" sucked and will never be as good as he was in the minors. KW is targeting people already, hell I would go and get williamson off the cubs. there will be players and yes we will over pay by giving a couple of guys who will never make it anyway. If only borchard was decent, he would be one to make a trade.KW put himself in this situation he will get himself out. if he doesn't it will cost him the division.

[jphat007]

I agree with you about getting a big name reliever.  I don't think teams will trade those guys before the season even starts.  I'm thinking of a guy who's on the bubble.  A guy I would have loved to claim off waivers was Joel Peralta when the Angels DFA'd him but the Royals had waiver priority and snatched him up.  But he's the type of guy I see us trading for -- a guy with good stuff who hasn't done much in the majors yet.

 

Maybe, but I think it is going to be tougher than you think. EVERYBODY wants more bullpen help and nobody wants to give it up. Thats why decent relievers got ridiculous money this year and we are at the end of the waiver claim list. Oh well. I'll take a WS to get in that spot.