Ethanol currently does almost nothing to cut into our energy demand.

Nor will it ever, by some estimates. I forget where I read that, but it would seem to be a farce to think that it will ever come to the amount of energy to even make a dent on our oil consumption.

Nor will it ever, by some estimates. I forget where I read that, but it would seem to be a farce to think that it will ever come to the amount of energy to even make a dent on our oil consumption.

Although, that is on the assumption we continue to use corn for ethanol. Other ag products seem to have much higher energy output.

Although, that is on the assumption we continue to use corn for ethanol. Other ag products seem to have much higher energy output.

Really? Like what? I'm curious.

Really? Like what? I'm curious.

Well, the example other people always cite is sugar cane, which has a much higher energy content per unit crop harvested than corn (Think; eat a pound of corn and a pound of sugar. How many hours before you can go to sleep after each?) A lot of people discuss how Brazil has had some success in this, but the numbers are often poorly understood, and claims are made that only end up wasting energy and costing American consumers even more $$.

Really? Like what? I'm curious.

There is a difference between conventional grain-based ethanol (corn, soy) and cellulosic ethanol (switchgrass, etc.). That is one important differentiation. Cellulosic ethanol requires no use of fossil fuels up front for production, or at least a lot less, and gives you more energy by mass. Here is a lengthy but interesting article...

 

http://www.harvestcleanenergy.org/enews/en...sic_Ethanol.htm

 

A brief from Iowa State (go Clones!) on the energy output difference, and links to a DOE study:

 

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~brummer/ag/biomass2.htm

 

Now, part of the problem with cellolosic ethanol is that it will take some time and money to get the infrastructure up and running (just like any other feul source). But once it is there, we would have a renewable, locally-produced, lower emission fuel to work with.

So this is the grass clippings ethanol that's been talked about? Basically compost type of material, except it doesn't rot, it is turned into ethanol.

 

I think that is a pretty interesting concept.

The website "The Oil Drum" which keeps track of these sorts of energy related issues has had a very fascinating, long-running discussion on ethanol and cellulosic ethanol in particular. If you want to hear a very detailed discussion of the topic, here you go:

 

Link 1

Link 2

Link 3

Link 4

Link 5

Link 6

Link 7

 

I don't know if I have that long right now. I'll try to read this sometime soon, cause I think it's interesting. Besides, technology like this, if it's done right, is a great investment opportunity.

 

I don't know if I have that long right now. I'll try to read this sometime soon, cause I think it's interesting. Besides, technology like this, if it's done right, is a great investment opportunity.

That's actually one of the big debate topics there...as one of the guys involved in the debates is investing heavily in ethanol technologies, while the other is contending it won't work and ever be profitable without government subsidies (as it is now).

$2 gas "more likely than unlikely"

 

Me personally, I'll believe it when I see it.

$2 gas "more likely than unlikely"

 

Me personally, I'll believe it when I see it.

 

Oskaloosa, Iowa- $2.05 today

Oskaloosa, Iowa- $2.05 today

 

The national average is 2.61. That's the number that matters, not a single outlier in Iowa.

$2 gas "more likely than unlikely"

 

Me personally, I'll believe it when I see it.

 

I'll say it again, and that article echos it: the market will NOT sustain gas at the current levels.

 

Nor will it ever, by some estimates. I forget where I read that, but it would seem to be a farce to think that it will ever come to the amount of energy to even make a dent on our oil consumption.

 

True. To get to the levels they would like to see it at, all of the corn production in a large portion of the midwest would have to go towards ethanol. That's as technology and resources stand now, though. As NSS said, there's much more promising developements, it'll just take some time and a whole lot of money to get there.

Edited September 13, 200619 yr by StrangeSox

More importantly my car needs to make a damn noise when I am out of gas so I stop running out nowhere near a gas station.

Edited September 13, 200619 yr by WHarris1

I'll say it again, and that article echos it: the market will NOT sustain gas at the current levels.

True. To get to the levels they would like to see it at, all of the corn production in a large portion of the midwest would have to go towards ethanol. That's as technology and resources stand now, though. As NSS said, there's much more promising developements, it'll just take some time and a whole lot of money to get there.

Even then, it still takes oil to run the farm equipment.

Even then, it still takes oil to run the farm equipment.

Not if you use Oxen.

Along the lines of this topic, BMW is rolling out a Hydrogen car. Its good to see things starting to move in that direction.

 

Hydrogen Car

Even then, it still takes oil to run the farm equipment.

If the fuel for the equipment is not oil-based, and the oil used in the engine is synthetic, then in fact zero oil is used by the farm equipment.

 

Or did you mean right now, with current technology?

The national average is 2.61. That's the number that matters, not a single outlier in Iowa.

 

It matters to me because I love having cheaper gas in Iowa. Last I knew it was like 2.25 in Cedar Falls, but that was on Sunday.

It matters to me because I love having cheaper gas in Iowa. Last I knew it was like 2.25 in Cedar Falls, but that was on Sunday.

 

2.19 in Des Moines, and that is the Super Unleaded, which is cheaper than Regular Unleaded.

Saw 2.44 on my way to work today.

World has tapped just 18 percent of global oil supplies, Saudi executive says

World has tapped just 18 percent of global oil supplies, Saudi executive says

Yesssss...keep using the oil....yesss.....don't worry there's plenty....yessss....

World has tapped just 18 percent of global oil supplies, Saudi executive says

 

I remember having a science textbook in like 3rd or 4th grade that said we would be out of oil by the year 2000-2010.

World has tapped just 18 percent of global oil supplies, Saudi executive says

Well, that may or may not be true, but I sure as heck wouldn't take a Saudi oil exec's word for it.