Sox Lose Series to KC 9/3/06

[Chisoxfn]

It's amazing how consistently bad him and Contreras are right now.

Count is on a level all by himself. Freddy's been bad, but Jose has been awful as of late.

[greg775]

As far as Mack in cf ... he obviously thinks BA is not ready for everyday duty and

despite the love of BA on here the guy is hitting .233 with 32 rbis and 43 runs

scored in 300 at bats.

He does not deserve to be an everyday player right now.

Who is the backup? The roster says it's mack.

I agree he's horrible; I don't blame Oz.

I blame the moving of Rowand. We shoulda found another way to get Thome.

BA wasn't ready for prime time and yes I realize he's hitting .300 or whatever it is

the last couple months.

 

 

Well I'd say I've seen probably only 20 games the whole way through.

Saw em play live in KC a couple times also.

Parts of other games.

I am not some moron. I know my team, have followed the Sox for many many

years.

I may disagree with you but I think I am well informed fan.

[beautox]

As far as Mack in cf ... he obviously thinks BA is not ready for everyday duty and

despite the love of BA on here the guy is hitting .233 with 32 rbis and 43 runs

scored in 300 at bats.

He does not deserve to be an everyday player right now.

Who is the backup? The roster says it's mack.

I agree he's horrible; I don't blame Oz.

I blame the moving of Rowand. We shoulda found another way to get Thome.

BA wasn't ready for prime time and yes I realize he's hitting .300 or whatever it is

the last couple months.

Well I'd say I've seen probably only 20 games the whole way through.

Saw em play live in KC a couple times also.

Parts of other games.

I am not some moron. I know my team, have followed the Sox for many many

years.

I may disagree with you but I think I am well informed fan.

 

wow. I'm speechless.

 

i want some apple drink.

[southsideirish71]

As far as Mack in cf ... he obviously thinks BA is not ready for everyday duty and

despite the love of BA on here the guy is hitting .233 with 32 rbis and 43 runs

scored in 300 at bats.

He does not deserve to be an everyday player right now.

Who is the backup? The roster says it's mack.

I agree he's horrible; I don't blame Oz.

I blame the moving of Rowand. We shoulda found another way to get Thome.

BA wasn't ready for prime time and yes I realize he's hitting .300 or whatever it is

the last couple months.

 

You blame the moving of Rowand.

 

Rowand couldnt hold Andersons jock in center field defensively. I hope you realize that.

 

 

The comment about him not deserving everyday status is foolish at best.

 

The guy is hitting 300 for the last 3 months. He hit like crap for 2 months, and then has hit good for 3 months.

 

I guess then Pods and Uribe are not deserving of being a starting player right now either. Pods is hitting below .230 for the last 2 months, and Uribe is batting .240ish and is a vet.

[greg775]

Let me throw it back at you.

You all think BA is fine? An everyday player?

Tell me why.

[Kalapse]

As far as Mack in cf ... he obviously thinks BA is not ready for everyday duty and

despite the love of BA on here the guy is hitting .233 with 32 rbis and 43 runs

scored in 300 at bats.

He does not deserve to be an everyday player right now.

Who is the backup? The roster says it's mack.

I agree he's horrible; I don't blame Oz.

I blame the moving of Rowand. We shoulda found another way to get Thome.

BA wasn't ready for prime time and yes I realize he's hitting .300 or whatever it is

the last couple months.

Well I'd say I've seen probably only 20 games the whole way through.

Saw em play live in KC a couple times also.

Parts of other games.

I am not some moron. I know my team, have followed the Sox for many many

years.

I may disagree with you but I think I am well informed fan.

If he's hitting 300+ over the past nearly 3 months then how is he not an everyday player? That's nearly half a season of well above average offensive production from a rookie who is also one of the best defensively at his position. How is it that Podsednik can hit .250 for the year and he has to be an everyday player but Anderson hits 15 points lower and must be benched?

[southsideirish71]

Let me throw it back at you.

You all think BA is fine? An everyday player?

Tell me why.

 

 

He is hitting over .300 for the last 3 months. He catches pretty much everything hit to him, and has great range.

[greg775]

I may be off base in all your minds but I can't believe the entire Sox fan

base thinks our skipper is terrible.

If I got to go to games at the Cell would everybody be grumbling and wanting

Oz's head?

I can't believe a majority of our fans think he sucks.

I think he's a good manager.

I think our talent is suspect in many areas.

Call me a dumbass but that's my take.

[southsideirish71]

If he's hitting 300+ over the past nearly 3 months then how is he not an everyday player? That's nearly half a season of well above average offensive production from a rookie who is also one of the best defensively at his position. How is it that Podsednik can hit .250 for the year and he has to be an everyday player but Anderson hits 15 points lower and must be benched?

 

 

His quote about we should of figured a way to get Thome without giving up rowand speaks volumes.

Edited September 4, 2006 by southsideirish71

[beautox]

Let me throw it back at you.

You all think BA is fine? An everyday player?

Tell me why.

 

Anderson is batting .296 since the Allstar break, and .303 in the last 30 days, and his glove is light years ahead of everyone in baseball as seen here, Mackowiak is good only in the corner (1B, 3B, RF, LF) and nothing more, maybe back up catcher in a pinch but thats it. That is why Brian is an everyday player.

[Kalapse]

Since June 11th:

 

Player 1: .290 BA | .344 OBP | .793 OPS | 27 R | 17 2B | 3 HR | 20 RBI :: 49 GS

 

Player 2: .260 BA | .310 OBP | .651 OPS | 39 R | 13 2B | 2 HR | 25 RBI :: 56 GS

 

Player 3: .235 BA | .307 OBP | .678 OPS | 33 R | 14 2B | 5 HR | 24 RBI :: 56 GS

 

Interesting huh?

[jackie hayes]

Greg, Im not calling you a dumb fan. In no way am I calling you that. HOWEVER, with only seeing 20 so games this season, In my opinion, its hard to judge players on a fair basis. Watching basically every pitch this season, (missing a few games when I was on vacation) you can get a much better opinion of the team.

 

Stats tell alot about the player, but I use my eyes first and formost, and its hard to judge players like Thornton and Mac when you dont see them everyday.

 

Same goes for Anderson-Mackowiak situation. You dont see Macks D every day, nor Andersons.

I don't think this is fair. The "stats" actually support the idea that Thornton and Macdougal have been excellent this year. greg admitted that he was judging them largely on single appearances. He also admitted that Mack is a "horrible" defender. He evaluated the 2 just fine, he just assigns blame differently. No amount of game-watching can help in judging that.

 

In general, I don't like this sort of classification of fans who do/do not have enough knowledge to comment. greg obviously follows the team closely, he comments frequently enough to see that. The discussion should be substantive -- this sort of argument (I watch more, so... hierarchy) should play no role at all.

 

Now, admittedly, I'm biased -- even though I disagree with greg pretty roundly, I listen to most games on the radio (internet feed). By the end of this year (regular season), I'll have probably watched (I'm guessing) only 30-40 Sox games, in person or on tv. If there's an argument about something that required sight (which I didn't see) -- did it hit a batter, was it a strike, etc -- I won't comment. But I haven't seen greg make any overreaching comments here.

 

Okay, my piece. /out

[Balta1701]

I may be off base in all your minds but I can't believe the entire Sox fan

base thinks our skipper is terrible.

If I got to go to games at the Cell would everybody be grumbling and wanting

Oz's head?

I can't believe a majority of our fans think he sucks.

I think he's a good manager.

I think our talent is suspect in many areas.

Call me a dumbass but that's my take.

Let's put it this way. In 2005, Ozzie Guillen was not the best in-game manager. He'd put people in positions where it was difficult for them to succeed, he'd sometimes give his guys too much rest, and give other guys not enough rest. He'd bat Timo leadoff. Or play him at 1b. Or hell, he'd play Timo. He pitched Shingo long after he was finished just to give him a shot. He'd leave his starting pitchers in too long. And so on.

 

But there was one thing you could never say about last year's team; you could never say they didn't want it. Yes, they looked like crap in some games, weeks, or months. But even when they got to the end of their rope, someone stepped up, and shot fire back into that team. Widger against Randy Johnson. The Rally Crede. Brandon McCarthy. And so on.

 

This year, there has been no one to do that. This team has been struggling since the series with the Red Sox at the beginning of July. And no one has stepped up to really stop things. Guys have tried, like JD for example, but they haven't been able to give enough to win the big games. Ozzie has kept up all his bad habits from last year, like insane lineups, or keeping starting pitchers in too long, and maybe even taken them a step further, as Mack in Cf has cost us more games this year than Timo ever could have dreamed of last year.

 

But the real key, IMO, is this. This team has absolutely no intensity. They don't make things happen. They don't fight through adversity and find themselves with chances to win. When they find themselves with chances to tie or win close games late, they can't figure out how to get the big hit. 2 games in that stretch against the DRays and Royals we had the tying run on base late, but couldn't even tie either.

 

I'll tolerate poor in game managing. But we brought Ozzie in for one reason...under Jerry Manuel, this team was dead. They were asleep. Lackadasical. They didn't seem to care. We brought Ozzie in to kick some asses, so that when they'd get in a position to win a game, they'd fight hard, and at least act like they want to win the game. Last year, we saw that. That's where that ungodly good record in 1 run games came from...when the game got close, the team acted like its manager, and they stepped up.

 

This year, when the games get close, the team backs down, and the other teams seize the initiative. I think that's the hardest part of this whole season...they keep putting themselves in positions to win and fail to seize those chances. It drives me even more crazy than the pitching or the free runs given up by Mack in CF. I'd tolerate those if this team seemed to have some fight in it. But they just don't. They get opportunities, fail to seize them, and watch their opponents take them. We brought Ozzie in because we were sick of seeing that under Manuel. In 2005, it stopped, and we got some jewelry because of it. In 2006, it's right back.

[Texsox]

Perhaps we are missing Rowand for more than his baseball skills,

[beck72]

I may be off base in all your minds but I can't believe the entire Sox fan

base thinks our skipper is terrible.

If I got to go to games at the Cell would everybody be grumbling and wanting

Oz's head?

I can't believe a majority of our fans think he sucks.

I think he's a good manager.

I think our talent is suspect in many areas.

Call me a dumbass but that's my take.

Maybe a vocal minority around here think's Ozzie sucks, but I don't. The Sox pitching and inconsistent hitting that's far too dependent on the HR has gotten the sox to this point [which isn't too bad, in line for the wild card]. He may not be the best in game manager. And some of his moves have been questionable. But it's the players performance or lack thereof more than Ozzie's moves that will decide if the sox make the playoffs.

[DrunkBomber]

For everyone that thinks Ozzie should, or will be canned. What do you think it would take for them to finally pull the trigger on him. Ultimately, how much leeway does he have for the ring he brought to Chicago.

[shoota]

Guillen will get them to the post-season.

Whichever team hires the Great Tom Kelly in the next two weeks wins the World Series.

 

QFT

[Kalapse]

Maybe a vocal minority around here think's Ozzie sucks, but I don't. The Sox pitching and inconsistent hitting that's far too dependent on the HR has gotten the sox to this point [which isn't too bad, in line for the wild card]. He may not be the best in game manager. And some of his moves have been questionable. But it's the players performance or lack thereof more than Ozzie's moves that will decide if the sox make the playoffs.

There's one simple fix to imediately help out the starting pitching and no it is not Brandon McCarthy, it's called putting your best defensive team on the field at all times. An outfield of Scott Podsednik, Rob Mackowiak and Jermaine Dye is not going to help the pitching one bit. Rob Mackowiak in LF, Anderson and Dye is an outfield that is going to limit their mistakes and help prevent runs from scoring. Kenny Williams basically said it himself on the Score, the best defensive team needs to be put on the field at all times especially when your best defensive player is also one of your best offensive players over the past 3 months. If your starting pitching is going to suck then help them out by putting a halfway passable defensive team on the field.

 

The job of a manager is to put your players in the best position to succeed day in and day out and from what I and many many others have seen this year Ozzie Guillen has not done this.

[fathom]

- Anyone who sees this team play every day would know that Anderson should be an everyday starter.

- Yes, I think Ozuna/Mackowiak would be a huge upgrade in LF over Pods.

- If we're going to complain about MacDougal/Thornton being bad, then I don't want to know how we classify every starter not named Jon.

[greg775]

This year, when the games get close, the team backs down, and the other teams seize the initiative.

 

I would agree it "appears" this way.

If Oz has become too forgiving this year or lost the team this year, that's a big concern.

The question is ... has this happened??

I don't, however, recall him turning over tables and freaking out much last year.

And last year when we were blowing the lead to Cleveland he

didn't panic and we ended up winning it all.

I would be much more apt to criticize Oz if indeed we are not playing "hungry" this year. How do

you gauge that?? Sometimes, I don't think there's anything he can do when our pitching simply is giving away games with its mediocrity.

 

Look at Detroit and "great manager" Jim Leyland.

As of late he's been helpless to stop the Tigers' slide, though they had a nice win today.

Without Kenny Rogers' effort of late, they'd really be in a mess.

Players win games.

I do think managers set the tone. Whether the players have quit on Oz, I think only the people in the

clubhouse can tell us (maybe the beat writers of the papers should write something on that). Anybody

besides Mariotti.

Edited September 4, 2006 by greg775

[Balta1701]

For everyone that thinks Ozzie should, or will be canned. What do you think it would take for them to finally pull the trigger on him. Ultimately, how much leeway does he have for the ring he brought to Chicago.

He has at least 2 more years, and the only way he wouldn't have more than that is if KW keeps giving him teams that look as good on paper as this one and the team looks as lackadasical as this one does.

[Gene Honda Civic]

Add bobby to the list.

[Kalapse]

MacDougal and Thornton were lights out for 2 innings tonight, are they good now?

[Gene Honda Civic]

MacDougal and Thornton were lights out for 2 innings tonight, are they good now?

No they still suck, now they just have more company