Six Imams removed from flight

[Soxy]

Thoughts?

 

6 imams removed from Twin Cities flight

 

By STEVE KARNOWSKI, Associated Press Writer 8 minutes ago

 

MINNEAPOLIS - The Council on American-Islamic Relations called Tuesday for an investigation into the behavior of airline staff and airport security in the removal of six Muslim scholars from a US Airways flight a day earlier.

 

A passenger raised concerns about the imams — three of whom said their normal evening prayers in the airport terminal before boarding the Phoenix-bound plane, according to one — through a note passed to a flight attendant, according to Andrea Rader, a spokeswoman for US Airways.

 

"We are concerned that crew members, passengers and security personnel may have succumbed to fear and prejudice based on stereotyping of Muslims and Islam," Nihad Awad, the council's executive director, said in a news release.

 

The six were returning from a conference in Minneapolis of the North American Imams Federation, said Omar Shahin of Phoenix, president of the group.

 

"They took us off the plane, humiliated us in a very disrespectful way," Shahin said after the incident.

 

Shahin said Tuesday that three members of the group prayed in the terminal before the six boarded the plane. They entered individually, except for one member who is blind and needed to be guided, Shahin said. Once on the plane, the six did not sit together, he said.

 

"We did nothing" on the plane, Shahin said.

 

The six were among passengers who boarded Flight 300, bound for Phoenix, around 6:30 p.m. Monday, airport spokesman Pat Hogan said.

 

Police were called after the captain and airport security workers asked the men to leave the plane and the men refused, Rader said.

 

Shahin said no one asked the six to leave until police arrived, when the group complied.

 

"Unfortunately, this is a growing problem of singling out Muslims or people perceived to be Muslims at airports, and it's one that we've been addressing for some time," council spokesman Ibrahim Hooper said.

 

Hooper said the meeting drew about 150 imams from all over the country, and that those attending included Rep.-elect Keith Ellison, D-Minn., who just became the first Muslim elected to Congress. Shahin said they went as far as notifying police and the

FBI about their meeting in advance.

 

Shahin expressed frustration that — despite extensive efforts by him and other Muslim leaders since even before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks — so many Americans know so little about Islam.

 

"If up to now they don't know about prayers, this is a real problem," he said.

 

Shahin said the group spent the night at the home of a local imam and was waiting for a phone call Tuesday from US Airways. Hooper said US Airways refused to put the men on another flight.

 

The airline did not immediately respond to a message seeking comment on that aspect Tuesday.

 

The other passengers on the flight, which was carrying 141 passengers and five crew members, were re-screened for boarding, Rader said. The plane took off about three hours after the men were removed.

[sox4lifeinPA]

I believe this happened to a Rabbi who was praying. People need to lighten up. There's a lot "worse" behavior than praying on a plane...like sharpening knives....or snakes...

[juddling]

When do some people realize that in America you need to follow American laws???? The news story i heard this morning was that the flight was just about to take off when the gentleman stood up and started praying. After being told they were about to take off and needed to take their seats they got argumentitive.

 

Personally..i think the pilot should have started take off and if the guys fell and got hurt...oh well...they were told to take their seats. I surprised they didn't ask the pilot to turn the plane so it's facing whatever direction they need to.

 

 

"Shahin expressed frustration that — despite extensive efforts by him and other Muslim leaders since even before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks — so many Americans know so little about Islam.

 

"If up to now they don't know about prayers, this is a real problem," he said."

 

I have no desire to learn about Islam and their prayer services. I'm not the problem. The guys standing in the aisles starting a 10 minute prayer(delaying the whole plane) are the problem. How about some conformity on their end???? I don't think missing a prayer to Allah will cause them to burst into flame or anything.

 

***note: the news story i heard on the radio was that they stood up in the aisle of the plane. That was not in the story posted so if anyone is wondering.that's where i got that fact from.

[Soxy]

Juddling,

Can I just ask what radio program you heard that on?

[Balta1701]

***note: the news story i heard on the radio was that they stood up in the aisle of the plane. That was not in the story posted so if anyone is wondering.that's where i got that fact from.

So, there are 2 fundamentally different versions here to react to. If the version you're presenting is the true one, then yes, there was cause for removal - getting up and taking up space in a plane aisle and refusing to be seated The version in the article above suggests that there was no disturbance on the plane, including no prayers, until a passenger passed a note to a flight attendent. It also suggests that they conducted their evening prayers in the terminal before boarding the plane.

[sox4lifeinPA]

So, there are 2 fundamentally different versions here to react to. If the version you're presenting is the true one, then yes, there was cause for removal - getting up and taking up space in a plane aisle and refusing to be seated The version in the article above suggests that there was no disturbance on the plane, including no prayers, until a passenger passed a note to a flight attendent. It also suggests that they conducted their evening prayers in the terminal before boarding the plane.

 

agreed. if they didn't stand up and disrupt the flight then there's no need to deplane them.

[juddling]

Juddling,

Can I just ask what radio program you heard that on?

 

 

The boys in the morning on WIND had a report from MN. Some network stringer i guess. Who knows....maybe they had an early version and they were wrong. If they were taken off just because some people on the plane had issue with the Muslims praying before the plane boarding then yeah..that's not right.

[Soxy]

Interesting, the official AP story (the one posted here and the one published in the Twin Cities' local papers, Star Trib and Pioneer Press) said they prayed in the terminal.

 

I've also found a couple articles that said they were praying during boarding.

 

Interesting.

[Balta1701]

I've also found a couple articles that said they were praying during boarding.

I also see no problem with praying during boarding of the plane as long as they're not interfering with the process of getting people on or disobeying the instructions of a flight attendent.

[southsideirish71]

3 of them stood up at the same time

 

Before we all jump on the PC bandwagon and start to ridicule the bad airlines. You are telling me that a group of Muslim men standing up in different parts of the plane at the same time is not cause for concern then you need to review what happened on the hijacked planes on 9/11. On 9/11 at once a group of Muslim men all got up at the same time, and then proceeded to take the plane. Get on the plane, and get in your seat. I have flown all over the world, and haven't seen where we have Muslim prayers and everyone stands up on a plane. And I have been to Muslim parts of the world. What I have seen from my own eyes is that they have their prayers before they get on the plane, because during the call to prayer they usually use a mat and prayer on their knees. But hell that is only going to Indonesia and Malaysia, and to Dubai. I guess those muslims are not as special as the ones in Minny who have to stand up on the plane. This is getting dumb. I think this was a setup.

 

 

 

 

"They took us off the plane, humiliated us in a very disrespectful way," said Omar Shahin, of Phoenix.

 

The six Muslim scholars were returning from a conference in Minneapolis of the North American Imams Federation, said Shahin, president of the group. Five of them were from the Phoenix-Tempe area, while one was from Bakersfield, Calif., he said.

 

Three of them stood and said their normal evening prayers together on the plane, as 1.7 billion Muslims around the world do every day, Shahin said. He attributed any concerns by passengers or crew to ignorance about Islam.

[sox4lifeinPA]

wouldn't passing a note to a flight attendant be suspicious activity?

[Balta1701]

wouldn't passing a note to a flight attendant be suspicious activity?

Seemingly, not if it accuses a Muslim person of anything.

[sox4lifeinPA]

Seemingly, not if it accuses a Muslim person of anything.

 

especially if I were looking for a distraction..... no?

[juddling]

"Three of them stood and said their normal evening prayers together on the plane, as 1.7 billion Muslims around the world do every day, Shahin said. He attributed any concerns by passengers or crew to ignorance about Islam. "

 

 

Gee...how nice of AP to leave THAT little fact out ot their story

[Rex Kickass]

Where does it say in the story that they were standing after the doors closed? From the chronology the story implies, the imams were praying during boarding. They might have been standing to do things like put a bag in an overhead bin for all people know.

 

It's tough to get the real story in a situation like this. There are 100+ witnesses, but the story is often colored by fear... and the eyewitness accounts are often colored about what people think they see and what they think is happening. Just like when you go through a rough patch of turbulence. People might think the pilot is wrestling with the control of the plane because of what they feel and fear, although the pilot probably isn't touching a single control because of what he knows.

 

I don't think this particular incident is a set up. At the same time, I don't know that the Imams were particularly friendly or personable during this situation. It was most likely a little bit of inappropriate behavior on both sides.

[sox4lifeinPA]

the title of this thread sounds like a joke set up....

[Balta1701]

I don't think this particular incident is a set up. At the same time, I don't know that the Imams were particularly friendly or personable during this situation. It was most likely a little bit of inappropriate behavior on both sides.

Would you be particularly friendly if someone asked you to remove yourself from a plane?

[Rex Kickass]

If that's how the conversation started - no. But something tells me that there was something between being deplaned and handcuffed that happened that led to the latter from the former.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

"Three of them stood and said their normal evening prayers together on the plane, as 1.7 billion Muslims around the world do every day, Shahin said. He attributed any concerns by passengers or crew to ignorance about Islam. "

Gee...how nice of AP to leave THAT little fact out ot their story

 

 

My question here is why should we bend so far backwards to accomodate Islamic Law? This is another example of how these people think their religon is the be all / end all of existence and that nothing else matters. What was stopping these guys from doing their prayers before takeoff? Before they came to the airport? They totally should have been bounced from that flight cause they thumbed their nose at the rules. Maybe if Muslims were more tolerant and accomodating of American Culture ( which still is for the most part tolerant of their culture being a guest in our country ) they would find less hostility to them.

[Balta1701]

My question here is why should we bend so far backwards to accomodate Islamic Law? This is another example of how these people think their religon is the be all / end all of existence and that nothing else matters. What was stopping these guys from doing their prayers before takeoff? Before they came to the airport? They totally should have been bounced from that flight cause they thumbed their nose at the rules. Maybe if Muslims were more tolerant and accomodating of American Culture ( which still is for the most part tolerant of their culture being a guest in our country ) they would find less hostility to them.

When exactly did either standing while on a plane or praying while on a plane (both of them before takeoff) become against the rules?

[sox4lifeinPA]

My question here is why should we bend so far backwards to accomodate Islamic Law? This is another example of how these people think their religon is the be all / end all of existence and that nothing else matters. What was stopping these guys from doing their prayers before takeoff? Before they came to the airport? They totally should have been bounced from that flight cause they thumbed their nose at the rules. Maybe if Muslims were more tolerant and accomodating of American Culture ( which still is for the most part tolerant of their culture being a guest in our country ) they would find less hostility to them.

 

Nuke will you be my VP?

[juddling]

When exactly did either standing while on a plane or praying while on a plane (both of them before takeoff) become against the rules?

 

 

It's against the rules when a stewardess tells you to sit down and buckle up as they are getting ready to take-off. They could have sat in their seats and prayed all they want to. Hell...my wife does that every time we fly (of course it's because she doesn't like flying). Standing after you are told to sit by an authority figure is against the rules.

[bmags]

My question here is why should we bend so far backwards to accomodate Islamic Law? This is another example of how these people think their religon is the be all / end all of existence and that nothing else matters. What was stopping these guys from doing their prayers before takeoff? Before they came to the airport? They totally should have been bounced from that flight cause they thumbed their nose at the rules. Maybe if Muslims were more tolerant and accomodating of American Culture ( which still is for the most part tolerant of their culture being a guest in our country ) they would find less hostility to them.

 

how did we bend far backwards for 'islamic law'? They were removed from the plane.

[sox4lifeinPA]

how did we bend far backwards for 'islamic law'? They were removed from the plane.

 

that has yet to be determined by lawsuits I would imagine.

[juddling]

how did we bend far backwards for 'islamic law'? They were removed from the plane.

 

 

We didn't really..i think Nuke was refering to the comment the one guy made about us understanding 'their' laws and traditions. They are in our country..how about they observe OUR laws and accept the consequence when they break those laws or rules. Why is it that we should always go out of our way to accomodate them and their rules.