TLAK Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 By Ken Mandel / MLB.com DUNEDIN, Fla. -- Hours after the Phillies announced that Jon Lieber would pitch out of the bullpen to start the season, starter Freddy Garcia left Wednesday night's game against the Blue Jays with tightness in his right bicep after throwing 32 pitches. Garcia, who was scheduled to throw 85 pitches, was traveling back to Clearwater to be examined by trainer Scott Sheridan. The club doesn't expect to have the results until Thursday morning. Garcia allowed five hits and three runs in the first inning, including a two-run homer by Troy Glaus, and didn't come out for the second inning. The veteran right-hander was replaced by Fabio Castro. Garcia was acquired at the Winter Meetings for Minor League starters Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez and was expected to anchor the rotation. He's pitched at least 200 innings in seven of his eight seasons in the Major Leagues. Garcia has had velocity concerns since Spring Training began, topping out at 88 mph. He left the field with Triple-A Ottawa trainer Shawn Fcasni following the first inning. Ouch! A tight bicep is really a labrum injury? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 "Velocity concerns since Spring Training began?" LOL, try velocity concerns since last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 more signs of the wear and tear on pitchers. Garcia threw nothing but meatballs tonight, giving up five hits and three runs in one inning for the Phillies. ERA for the spring is now 11.42.. It appears we should be thankful to have Gavin Floyd. Here is the link: http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/news/...sp&c_id=phi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 not sox news Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 it's news to people who still care about the 05 sox. and it makes the trade for Floyd and Gio look better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Mar 21, 2007 -> 08:43 PM) "Velocity concerns since Spring Training began?" LOL, try velocity concerns since the beginning of last season, and he'd been steadily losing MPH since 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 QUOTE(winninguglyin83 @ Mar 21, 2007 -> 10:20 PM) it's news to people who still care about the 05 sox. and it makes the trade for Floyd and Gio look better. Former players are not allowed in the Sox section . Please use the following as reference for posting guidelines. (anarchy)WhiteSox.com..........................Soxtalk......WSI(Communism) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 It may make the trade look better, I have often said I think Garcia will be bad in 2007, but we will never know what KW could have gotten elsewhere if he just waited a couple months. I always liked the Garcia trade, until they dealt McCarthy and left what I believe is a hole in their rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Mar 21, 2007 -> 09:43 PM) "Velocity concerns since Spring Training began?" LOL, try velocity concerns since last season. Guys just don't drop that much velocity and then pick it right back up again. The White Sox sold his velocity drop on the extra workload in the playoffs and the World Baseball Classic. A lot of people bought it. There had to be something wrong. Then Freddy says he had some problems last year in his introductory press conference in Philadelphia. It wouldn't surprise me that if something is wrong that requires surgery, the Phillies ask for compensation. It would be ridiculous if they got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 21, 2007 -> 11:28 PM) It wouldn't surprise me that if something is wrong that requires surgery, the Phillies ask for compensation. It would be ridiculous if they got it. The Sox could send Gavin Floyd back.... Seriously though, if Toronto didn't get compensated for Mike Sirotka I can't see the Phillies getting it here. Edited March 22, 2007 by hitlesswonder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Mar 21, 2007 -> 11:32 PM) The Sox could send Gavin Floyd back.... Seriously though, if Toronto didn't get compensated for Mike Sirotka I can't see the Phillies getting it here. Actually taking Floyd off their hands should be compensation enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 21, 2007 -> 10:28 PM) Guys just don't drop that much velocity and then pick it right back up again. The White Sox sold his velocity drop on the extra workload in the playoffs and the World Baseball Classic. A lot of people bought it. There had to be something wrong. Then Freddy says he had some problems last year in his introductory press conference in Philadelphia. It wouldn't surprise me that if something is wrong that requires surgery, the Phillies ask for compensation. It would be ridiculous if they got it. Are you suggesting compensation from the White Sox if Garcia requires surgery? If that's what you mean, Philadelphia can whine all they want -- they're not receiving s***. Physicals are done for a reason. This isn't like an apparently healthy Gary Majewski magically developing arm troubles following a deal from the Nationals. Garcia's velocity has been rather stagnant for over a year. QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Mar 21, 2007 -> 10:32 PM) Seriously though, if Toronto didn't get compensated for Mike Sirotka I can't see the Phillies getting it here. This is exactly what I thought of as well. It may cause resentment between organizations, but unless there's clear evidence Williams dealt an injured Garcia no one can do much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Mar 21, 2007 -> 11:40 PM) Are you suggesting compensation from the White Sox if Garcia requires surgery? If that's what you mean, Philadelphia can whine all they want -- they're not receiving s***. Physicals are done for a reason. This isn't like an apparently healthy Gary Majewski magically developing arm troubles following a deal from the Nationals. Garcia's velocity has been rather stagnant for over a year. Believe me, if there's something wrong that's going to keep him down, and they feel he came over as damaged goods, they will inquire. I don't think the White Sox would be obligated. I saw him last year and figured something had to be wrong. I would imagine they examined him. If they did, they missed it, tough luck. If they didn't they were fools, tough luck again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Mar 21, 2007 -> 09:43 PM) "Velocity concerns since Spring Training began?" LOL, try velocity concerns since last season. Maybe it meant since Sprning Training of 2006 began . Anyways, anybody who had a problem with trading this worn down, now 30 something before this year and getting something instead of letting him go for nothing after a mediocre 2007 just like his mediocre 2006 (and yes people, he was VERY mediocre in 2006 for all but his last 5, stat padding starts). If you have a problem with what we got, fine, but otherwise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 21, 2007 -> 11:20 PM) It may make the trade look better, I have often said I think Garcia will be bad in 2007, but we will never know what KW could have gotten elsewhere if he just waited a couple months. I always liked the Garcia trade, until they dealt McCarthy and left what I believe is a hole in their rotation. And you think McCarthy would have filled that hole?! McCarthy is just not a pitcher suited for US Cellular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 QUOTE(Y2HH @ Mar 22, 2007 -> 12:13 PM) And you think McCarthy would have filled that hole?! McCarthy is just not a pitcher suited for US Cellular. Nor is he a pitcher suited for "RANGER BALLPARK IN ARLINGTON" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 QUOTE(kapkomet @ Mar 22, 2007 -> 07:28 AM) Nor is he a pitcher suited for "RANGER BALLPARK IN ARLINGTON" That is not our problem anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 QUOTE(rangercal @ Mar 21, 2007 -> 10:41 PM) Former players are not allowed in the Sox section . Please use the following as reference for posting guidelines. (anarchy)WhiteSox.com..........................Soxtalk......WSI(Communism) Why green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Wow if Freddy is still only hitting 88, I take back everything I said about a big year this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 22, 2007 -> 08:38 AM) Wow if Freddy is still only hitting 88, I take back everything I said about a big year this year. He'll still be better than last year, hes in the NL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Mar 22, 2007 -> 08:39 AM) He'll still be better than last year, hes in the NL. That'll all depend on his control and that new split finger pitch he was throwing. A pitcher who changes speed with good control and 88-89 can still succeed if he has the kind of movement Freddy had on that split. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 22, 2007 -> 11:13 AM) That'll all depend on his control and that new split finger pitch he was throwing. A pitcher who changes speed with good control and 88-89 can still succeed if he has the kind of movement Freddy had on that split. Even with that stuff he had last year he'll lose a run on his ERA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguy79 Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Not sure this changes anyones opinion on the trade but interesting none the less... Garcia was pulled yesterday and his right bicept is getting examined...his velocity is/was way down again this spring. In 7 2/3 innings this spring, Garcia has a 9.39 ERA. He has allowed 10 hits, eight runs, all earned, walked five and struck out two. Story: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2007/n...tory?id=2807526 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 21, 2007 -> 11:46 PM) Believe me, if there's something wrong that's going to keep him down, and they feel he came over as damaged goods, they will inquire. I don't think the White Sox would be obligated. I saw him last year and figured something had to be wrong. I would imagine they examined him. If they did, they missed it, tough luck. If they didn't they were fools, tough luck again. his velocity has been down since 2004. Remember the discussion about him giving up velocity for control once he came to the Sox. Who knows if there was a problem or when it started. My friends tell me he's never complained of any problems. Another thought is about the splitter. The was a decent article in Baseball weekly discussing how pitchers who pick up the splitter or forkball later in their careers have a high incidence of shoulder injuries. The question is did the pitch cause the injury or was the career going down so they tried a new pitch which didn't help. If it is just bicep tendonitis, it should be easily remedied. However as another poster said, sometimes this can be an indication of a glenoiud labrum tear. The labrum is a ring which deepens the shoulder socket to increase the stability of the joint. Pitchers inherently have loose shoulders so it moves around more. This can cause a fraying of the labrum and cause a SLAP lesion. This means Superior Labrum Anterior to Posterior tear. The bicep tendon attaches to the superior portion of the labrum. So if the labrum frays or tears it may show up as a bicep tendon pain. A great story of this is injury John Elway. He got a SLAP lseion during the playoff game before the first Super Bowl he won. It was gettingin the way of the joint and he couldn't throw. Since you don't throw as much or need to be mechanically correct in football, the doctors decided to disconnect the bicep tendon. They took off the tendon from the labrum and attached it to the bone out of the way. After he played the Super bowl the doctors re-attched the tendon and he did the 6 months rehab after the game. He would have missed the Super Bowl to do rehab earlier. I've always thought Elway was annoying but this showed me that he was one tough SOB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangercal Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 QUOTE(Texsox @ Mar 22, 2007 -> 09:23 AM) Why green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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