DEM Primaries/Candidates thread

[HuskyCaucasian]

Take this for what it is worth:

On Hardball a few moments ago the head of the democratic primary in Penn, who is a Clinton supporter, was asked "predict the outcome". He skirted it and said "if we win by a single vote it's a resounding win given all the money used against us."

 

Hmmm... lowering the expectations?

Edited April 17, 2008 by Athomeboy_2000

[Balta1701]

Subject: Enough is enough

 

Hi,

 

If you missed the Democratic presidential debate on ABC Wednesday night, Editor & Publisher called it "perhaps the most embarrassing performance by the media in a major presidential debate in years."

 

Moderators George Stephanopolous and Charlie Gibson spent the first 50 minutes obsessed with distractions that only political insiders care about--gaffes, polling numbers, the stale Rev. Wright story, and the old-news Bosnia story. And, channelling Karl Rove, they directed a video question to Barack Obama asking if he loves the American flag or not. Seriously!

 

I just signed a petition to ABC and other media that says: "Debate moderators abuse the public trust every time they ask trivial questions about gaffes and 'gotchas' that only political insiders care about. Enough with the distractions--ABC and other networks must focus on issues that affect people's daily lives."

 

Want to sign it to? We need a bunch of signers for ABC to take this concern seriously.

Click here to sign:

http://pol.moveon.org/enoughdistractions/?...Xm&rc=paste

Thanks!

[Balta1701]

McCain will be on George Stephanopoulos's show this weekend.

 

Based on previous standard, I think appropriate questions for him would certainly include a detailed examination about whether or not he did any improper favors for or had an extramarital relationship with that lobbyist as the NY Times alleged, his seeming inability to keep straight which ones are the Sunnis and which ones are the Shi'ites, and why he keeps being seen at events without a flag pin on.

[mr_genius]

McCain will be on George Stephanopoulos's show this weekend.

 

Based on previous standard, I think appropriate questions for him would certainly include a detailed examination about whether or not he did any improper favors for or had an extramarital relationship with that lobbyist as the NY Times alleged, his seeming inability to keep straight which ones are the Sunnis and which ones are the Shi'ites, and why he keeps being seen at events without a flag pin on.

 

they've already been doing it all election. the NY times ran a nation enquirer story on the guy. this "poor victim Obama" is nonsense. a lot of this is his own fault. i don't remember this outrage over how stupid the media is during 'Macaca gate' or any other pointless crap the media goes after the GOP on.

 

And how does asking McCain pointless questions help the debate? oh yea, it doesn't

 

edit: Oh, George Stephanopoulos's is a partisan Democrat, just for reference.

Edited April 17, 2008 by mr_genius

[BigSqwert]

edit: Oh, George Stephanopoulos's is a partisan Democrat, just for reference.

From the Clinton White House. Seems like the brunt of the silliness in the first 50 minutes of the debate was geared towards Obama.

[Texsox]

Interesting issue at play here. Find an expert on a subject that does not have an opinion. By the time you have that much invested in learning and understanding, you have opinions, often strong ones.

[Balta1701]

So, if this isn't a sign that the official party is pretty unhappy about last night...I don't know what is.

An increasingly firm Howard Dean told CNN again Thursday that he needs superdelegates to say who they’re for – and “I need them to say who they’re for starting now.”

 

“We cannot give up two or three months of active campaigning and healing time,” the Democratic National Committee Chairman told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer. “We’ve got to know who our nominee is.”

 

After facing criticism for a mostly hands-off leadership style during much of the primary season, Dean has been steadily raising the rhetorical pressure on superdelegates. He said Thursday that roughly 65 percent of them have made their preference plain, but that more than 300 have yet to make up their minds.

I would take that as a pretty clear "This can't go on any longer after last night" message, wouldn't you?

[BigSqwert]

From Daily Kos:

 

I was just notified that thanks to absentee and provisional ballots, Barack Obama has picked up an additional delegate in Hamilton County(Cincinnati), OH. This means Hillary's net gain in Ohio was actually only seven delegates. Also on March 4th, Obama picked up 5 delegates in Texas. With Obama also netting 3 delegates in Vermont that day, and Hillary netting five in Rhode Island, this means that Hillary's BEST day so far of primary season 2008, her biggest delegate gain, was March 4th, with a net pick up of a whopping five delegates. Every other day Obama tied or beat her.

[BigSqwert]

I would take that as a pretty clear "This can't go on any longer after last night" message, wouldn't you?

Sounds like it. We'll see if they listen and take action soon. I'm guessing yes.

[KipWellsFan]

So, if this isn't a sign that the official party is pretty unhappy about last night...I don't know what is.

I would take that as a pretty clear "This can't go on any longer after last night" message, wouldn't you?

 

Meh, I don't see how that debate really hurts the Democrats chances. Dean just wants this thing over and the more superdelegates declare the more obvious this thing becomes.

[Balta1701]

The guests tonight on the Colbert Report: Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. Not simultaneously, but he scored em both!

[Balta1701]

[Balta1701]

The guests tonight on the Colbert Report: Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. Not simultaneously, but he scored em both!

I believe I'm also reading that Edwards showed up.

[HuskyCaucasian]

The guests tonight on the Colbert Report: Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. Not simultaneously, but he scored em both!

Edwards' "edWORDS" was HYSTERICAL! Made me remember why I supported both him and Obama. He was great.

 

Oh, and Obama put "political distractions" on notice!

[FlaSoxxJim]

Edwards' "edWORDS" was HYSTERICAL! Made me remember why I supported both him and Obama. He was great.

 

Oh, and Obama put "political distractions" on notice!

 

Yeah, Edwards was excellent. I forgot Todd Rundgren had been put on Notice by Ric Ocasek until I saw his name on the On Notice Board.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Edwards' "edWORDS" was HYSTERICAL! Made me remember why I supported both him and Obama. He was great.

 

and Obama put "political distractions" on notice!

[HuskyCaucasian]

2 new polls:

Zogby: Clinton +4 (47-43)

Rasmussen: Clinton +3 (47-44)

 

For reference, yesterday Clinton was +1 yesterday in the Zogby poll, but Clinton was +9 in the Rasmussen poll 3 days ago.

Edited April 18, 2008 by Athomeboy_2000

[HuskyCaucasian]

New Indiana Poll (SurveyUSA):

Obama- 50%

Clinton- 45%

 

Recent Polls by SurveyUSA:

03/29 - 03/31.... 530 LV.... Clinton +9.0

04/11 - 04/13.... 571 LV.... Clinton +16.0

04/14 - 04/16.... 578 LV.... Obama +5 (today's poll)

[southsider2k5]

This from the last place I ever expected to see Obama get lit up in... The New York Times.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/18/opinion/...amp;oref=slogin

 

How Obama Fell to Earth

By DAVID BROOKS

 

Back in Iowa, Barack Obama promised to be something new — an unconventional leader who would confront unpleasant truths, embrace novel policies and unify the country. If he had knocked Hillary Clinton out in New Hampshire and entered general-election mode early, this enormously thoughtful man would have become that.

 

But he did not knock her out, and the aura around Obama has changed. Furiously courting Democratic primary voters and apparently exhausted, Obama has emerged as a more conventional politician and a more orthodox liberal.

 

He sprinkled his debate performance Wednesday night with the sorts of fibs, evasions and hypocrisies that are the stuff of conventional politics. He claimed falsely that his handwriting wasn’t on a questionnaire about gun control. He claimed that he had never attacked Clinton for her exaggerations about the Tuzla airport, though his campaign was all over it. Obama piously condemned the practice of lifting other candidates’ words out of context, but he has been doing exactly the same thing to John McCain, especially over his 100 years in Iraq comment.

 

Obama also made a pair of grand and cynical promises that are the sign of someone who is thinking more about campaigning than governing.

 

He made a sweeping read-my-lips pledge never to raise taxes on anybody making less than $200,000 to $250,000 a year. That will make it impossible to address entitlement reform any time in an Obama presidency. It will also make it much harder to afford the vast array of middle-class tax breaks, health care reforms and energy policy Manhattan Projects that he promises to deliver.

 

Then he made an iron vow to get American troops out of Iraq within 16 months. Neither Obama nor anyone else has any clue what the conditions will be like when the next president takes office. He could have responsibly said that he aims to bring the troops home but will make a judgment at the time. Instead, he rigidly locked himself into a policy that will not be fully implemented for another three years.

 

If Obama is elected, he will either go back on this pledge — in which case he would destroy his credibility — or he will risk genocide in the region and a viciously polarizing political war at home.

 

Then there are the cultural issues. Charles Gibson and George Stephanopoulos of ABC News are taking a lot of heat for spending so much time asking about Jeremiah Wright and the “bitter” comments. But the fact is that voters want a president who basically shares their values and life experiences. Fairly or not, they look at symbols like Michael Dukakis in a tank, John Kerry’s windsurfing or John Edwards’s haircut as clues about shared values.

 

When Obama began this ride, he seemed like a transcendent figure who could understand a wide variety of life experiences. But over the past months, things have happened that make him seem more like my old neighbors in Hyde Park in Chicago.

 

Some of us love Hyde Park for its diversity and quirkiness, as there are those who love Cambridge and Berkeley. But it is among the more academic and liberal places around. When Obama goes to a church infused with James Cone-style liberation theology, when he makes ill-informed comments about working-class voters, when he bowls a 37 for crying out loud, voters are going to wonder if he’s one of them. Obama has to address those doubts, and he has done so poorly up to now.

 

It was inevitable that the period of “Yes We Can!” deification would come to an end. It was not inevitable that Obama would now look so vulnerable. He’ll win the nomination, but in a matchup against John McCain, he is behind in Florida, Missouri and Ohio, and merely tied in must-win states like Michigan, Minnesota, New Jersey and Pennsylvania. A generic Democrat now beats a generic Republican by 13 points, but Obama is trailing his own party. One in five Democrats say they would vote for McCain over Obama.

 

General election voters are different from primary voters. Among them, Obama is lagging among seniors and men. Instead of winning over white high school-educated voters who are tired of Bush and conventional politics, he does worse than previous nominees. John Judis and Ruy Teixeira have estimated a Democrat has to win 45 percent of such voters to take the White House. I’ve asked several of the most skillful Democratic politicians over the past few weeks, and they all think that’s going to be hard.

 

A few months ago, Obama was riding his talents. Clinton has ground him down, and we are now facing an interesting phenomenon. Republicans have long assumed they would lose because of the economy and the sad state of their party. Now, Democrats are deeply worried their nominee will lose in November.

 

Welcome to 2008. Everybody’s miserable.

[Balta1701]

New Indiana Poll (SurveyUSA):

Obama- 50%

Clinton- 45%

 

Recent Polls by SurveyUSA:

03/29 - 03/31.... 530 LV.... Clinton +9.0

04/11 - 04/13.... 571 LV.... Clinton +16.0

04/14 - 04/16.... 578 LV.... Obama +5 (today's poll)

Suddenly I believe he's winning that state. And yet, that's a Hell of a swing.

 

Something's just odd about SUSA lately.

[Balta1701]

This from the last place I ever expected to see Obama get lit up in... The New York Times.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/18/opinion/...amp;oref=slogin

Just out of curiosity, how much do you know about David Brooks? Senior editor at the highly conservative "Weekly Standard", Writer for the WSJ and Washington Times, strongly in favor of the Iraq war, wrote in 2006 that a McCain/Lieberman ticket would represent the middle ground that the press seems to think America wants.

 

The overall opinion page certainly tilts to the left, but the Op-Ed page gets quite loaded with conservative writers, some good, some barely conscious.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Suddenly I believe he's winning that state. And yet, that's a Hell of a swing.

 

Something's just odd about SUSA lately.

Maybe the other polls are more accurate this time around. if so, things are getting VERY interesting!

[southsider2k5]

Just out of curiosity, how much do you know about David Brooks? Senior editor at the highly conservative "Weekly Standard", Writer for the WSJ and Washington Times, strongly in favor of the Iraq war, wrote in 2006 that a McCain/Lieberman ticket would represent the middle ground that the press seems to think America wants.

 

The overall opinion page certainly tilts to the left, but the Op-Ed page gets quite loaded with conservative writers, some good, some barely conscious.

 

I'll be honest, I don't read the NYT, just like I don't read a lot of the stuff that I believe is so far out of left field that it isn't worth my time. And in regards to McCain/Leiberman, I will say this much... Is a ticket that really pisses off the wings of both parties that bad of a thing? If the right wingers hate McCain, and the left-wingers hate Leiberman, that kinda leaves the middle ground open.

[Balta1701]

I'll be honest, I don't read the NYT, just like I don't read a lot of the stuff that I believe is so far out of left field that it isn't worth my time. And in regards to McCain/Leiberman, I will say this much... Is a ticket that really pisses off the wings of both parties that bad of a thing? If the right wingers hate McCain, and the left-wingers hate Leiberman, that kinda leaves the middle ground open.

Personally, I just don't think "We haven't bombed nearly enough countries in the Middle East" fits the description of middle ground for this country by anyone's imagination except Brooks, McCain, and Lieberman.

[southsider2k5]

Personally, I just don't think "We haven't bombed nearly enough countries in the Middle East" fits the description of middle ground for this country by anyone's imagination except Brooks, McCain, and Lieberman.

 

Picking out one issue is an easy way to make anyone look the way you want them to look, good or bad. Getting past that and realizing that those are two of the very few pols today who aren't afraid to work the other side of the aisle screams middle ground at me.