cubs or sox?

[Texsox]

The one thing you can look at is the one guaranteed automatic out you have when pitching to an NL lineup, a luxury you don't get in the AL.

Have you peeked at the bottom of our order?

 

One mitigating factor is the bottom of the NL order forces small ball. Sac bunts, etc.

 

Would it be more statistically valid to compare a DH to a pitcher or a #9 to a pitcher?

[BigSqwert]

Have you peeked at the bottom of our order?

 

Don't you mean the heart of our order?

[Kalapse]

Have you peeked at the bottom of our order?

 

One mitigating factor is the bottom of the NL order forces small ball. Sac bunts, etc.

 

Would it be more statistically valid to compare a DH to a pitcher or a #9 to a pitcher?

A #9 in the AL is the #8 in the NL and I'm sure even the numbers would show that. Your worst hitter is your worst hitter only difference being there's usually 1 guy who's even more pathetic than your worst offensive player when you are an NL team. Even the worst hitting starting position players in the American league are still going to hit over .200 in a lot of cases you're not even getting a .100 batting average from your starting pitcher.

[Texsox]

A #9 in the AL is the #8 in the NL and I'm sure even the numbers would show that. Your worst hitter is your worst hitter only difference being there's usually 1 guy who's even more pathetic than your worst offensive player when you are an NL team. Even the worst hitting starting position players in the American league are still going to hit over .200 in a lot of cases you're not even getting a .100 batting average from your starting pitcher.

 

Obviously the pitcher comes out and is replaced by a DH. But is taking that entire gain valid? For example, if Frank Thomas had been drafted and played in the NL. He would have been forced to play the field. He'd be a positional player.

[RME JICO]

A #9 in the AL is the #8 in the NL and I'm sure even the numbers would show that. Your worst hitter is your worst hitter only difference being there's usually 1 guy who's even more pathetic than your worst offensive player when you are an NL team. Even the worst hitting starting position players in the American league are still going to hit over .200 in a lot of cases you're not even getting a .100 batting average from your starting pitcher.

 

There are normally one or two pitchers per team that bat over .200. Zambrano is batting .250, Livan is batting .278, Lohse .308, etc, etc.

[Kalapse]

Obviously the pitcher comes out and is replaced by a DH. But is taking that entire gain valid? For example, if Frank Thomas had been drafted and played in the NL. He would have been forced to play the field. He'd be a positional player.

Which means that NL team would have no place for a guy like Paul Konerko and would be forced to chose between the two such as with the Phillies a year ago picking Howard over Thome. If they were an AL team they could have stuck Howard at first and just DH'd Jim but they were forced to trade away a 1.000 OPS because they have no room for him.

[Balta1701]

The link is so old I can't even find it any more, but a couple years ago, one of the SI guys took a look at ERA's of pitchers who switch between leagues. There was considerable scatter, but overall, moving from the AL to NL was worth about a run improvement in ERA, while the opposite move raised your ERA by about a run.

 

But, there were pitchers on both sides of the distribution. Some pitchers made the switch and improved their ERA by 1.5 runs or so, some pitchers made the switch and worsened by 1.5 runs or more.

[Kalapse]

There are normally one or two pitchers per team that bat over .200. Zambrano is batting .250, Livan is batting .278, Lohse .308, etc, etc.

Take it this way, how many teams have a pitcher with an OBP greater than .200? now how many AL teams have a starting position player with an OBP lower than .250? This is for an entire season mind you. Just picking a team at random from 2006 the Dodgers had one pitcher with a OBP >.200 and that was Aaron Sele at .222 the rest were in the low to mid .100s. The Braves had John Thomson at .267 the next highest was Smoltz at .176 and they had 2 others below .060.

[vandy125]

Did you forget that the Cubs will be facing the worst hitting team in baseball?

 

I really don't care. Defense + pitching = W. As long as the Defense and Pitching show up for the Sox, they will win most of these games. If either one of those are off for the series, then the games belong to the Cubs. They have the Cubs beat by far in defense and they are better in pitching, IMO.

[daa84]

Here is the simplest answer....

 

 

The cubs have overperformed and are 2 games under .500 while playing the 28th most difficult schedule in the league, with no major injuries to this point (well unless you count prior and wood, but at this point they dont count anymore since that team was built without them)

 

The sox have underperformed and are 2 games over .500 while playing the 5th most difficult schedule in the league without thome and podsednik

 

 

 

That whole DH thing tends to skew offensive production. It's just easier to face 8 hitters in the NL than it is to face 9 in the AL. Ask Ted Lilly about that one.

definately, it basically shortens the game by an entire inning

 

 

 

In looking at the cubs #s, and knowing the ease of the schedule they have played, I am baffled that they are not near the top of the NL central....three starters with a sub 2.55 ERA, Dlee hitting .390, soriano over .300, Aram with 8 HR....the rest of the offense hasnt been spectacular, but with the kind of starting pitching effort they have had, the O has been more than adequate

Edited May 15, 2007 by daa84

[vandy125]

In looking at the cubs #s, and knowing the ease of the schedule they have played, I am baffled that they are not near the top of the NL central....three starters with a sub 2.55 ERA, Dlee hitting .390, soriano over .300, Aram with 8 HR....the rest of the offense hasnt been spectacular, but with the kind of starting pitching effort they have had, the O has been more than adequate

 

Their bullpen has a stellar 2-10 record. I counted up 10 blown saves. The only other bullpen with that many losses is KC.

[rangercal]

Derosa over Iguchi? His name is spelled T-h-e-r-i-o-t.

No. I got it right. I would take Derosa over T-h-e-r-i-o-t too.

 

the rest? no way. you can't judge current struggles with substituting a player entirely...if you were GM we'd have a new team every 2 weeks.

If I were going mainly by struggles and hot streaks, you can bet Marquis, Lilly and Theriot would be high on my list.

 

2/3? easy there. the cubs have lilly, marquis, and zambrano going, while we will have buehrle, vazquez, and danks (possibly not sure). but even if so, right now for a 3 game series, except maybe contreras, garland, and buehrle, i wouldnt take the sox top 3 pitchers to win or sweep a series over the cubs top 3 (zambrano, marquis, and hill)

wow, Im getting hit at all angles in this thread. I don't think it is too far fetched saying EITHER team can take 2/3.

[RockRaines]

Cubs have more talent than the Sox this year....of course, that's what happens when you spend 300 million in an offseason.

ugh, the cubs would be the worst team in the AL hands down.

[fathom]

ugh, the cubs would be the worst team in the AL hands down.

 

Ha, come on now. Their talent blows away teams like the Royals, Tampa, Baltimore, etc. They have two of the best hitters in all of baseball in Soriano and Lee, they have a good hitting catcher, a very good hitting 3rd baseman, a terrific bench, and some solid to good starting pitchers.

[mr_genius]

Ha, come on now. Their talent blows away teams like the Royals, Tampa, Baltimore, etc. They have two of the best hitters in all of baseball in Soriano and Lee, they have a good hitting catcher, a very good hitting 3rd baseman, a terrific bench, and some solid to good starting pitchers.

 

 

cubs suck, dude. they can't even win in th pathetic NL Central.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(fathom @ May 15, 2007 -> 04:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ha, come on now. Their talent blows away teams like the Royals, Tampa, Baltimore, etc. They have two of the best hitters in all of baseball in Soriano and Lee, they have a good hitting catcher, a very good hitting 3rd baseman, a terrific bench, and some solid to good starting pitchers.

Soriano is nowhere near one of the "best" hitters in baseball.

[fathom]

Soriano is nowhere near one of the "best" hitters in baseball.

 

Last year he was damn good, and even though he started off slowly this year, he's going to be a monster at that park when the wind is blowing out. I used to think he was one of the most overrated hitters in baseball, but last year was very impressive.

[RockRaines]

Ha, come on now. Their talent blows away teams like the Royals, Tampa, Baltimore, etc. They have two of the best hitters in all of baseball in Soriano and Lee, they have a good hitting catcher, a very good hitting 3rd baseman, a terrific bench, and some solid to good starting pitchers.

Totally disagree. The only good player they have is Lee. Soriano was passable in the AL, their strating pitching is mediocre at best, their catcher is one of the worst defensive cathers in the league, and their bench is atrocious. They also happen to have a horrendous bullpen.

 

They would go head to head with tampa if they were in the AL east.

 

Last year he was damn good, and even though he started off slowly this year, he's going to be a monster at that park when the wind is blowing out. I used to think he was one of the most overrated hitters in baseball, but last year was very impressive.

Last year (NL).

 

In the AL he is nothing more than an average to good player. His BA has hovered around .268-.300 and his OPS .736 to .879 That is nowhere close to one of the best hitters in baseball.

 

Dont let the NL stats fool you, especially with the competition in the NL central.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(fathom @ May 15, 2007 -> 05:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Last year he was damn good, and even though he started off slowly this year, he's going to be a monster at that park when the wind is blowing out. I used to think he was one of the most overrated hitters in baseball, but last year was very impressive.

So was Gary Matthews Jr.

 

Contract years can do wonders for ball players (WAKE UP IGUCHI AND DYE!!!)

[fathom]

Totally disagree. The only good player they have is Lee. Soriano was passable in the AL, their strating pitching is mediocre at best, their catcher is one of the worst defensive cathers in the league, and their bench is atrocious. They also happen to have a horrendous bullpen.

 

They would go head to head with tampa if they were in the AL east.

Last year (NL).

 

In the AL he is nothing more than an average to good player. His BA has hovered around .268-.300 and his OPS .736 to .879 That is nowhere close to one of the best hitters in baseball.

 

Dont let the NL stats fool you, especially with the competition in the NL central.

 

He dominated in the NL East last night in the worst hitter's park in the majors. How can you say their bench is atrocious when they have a fantastic defensive back-up catcher, a good hitting outfielder in either Murton or Floyd, a very good lefty hitter off the bench in Ward, and an outfielder they can play at every position with some speed in Pagan? If their bench is atrocious, then our bench is the worst in the history of baseball. Their bullpen does suck though...Howry is a pitching machine. Cotts does have a much better offspeed pitch this year....at least Aardsma is doing very well though.

 

So was Gary Matthews Jr.

 

Contract years can do wonders for ball players (WAKE UP IGUCHI AND DYE!!!)

 

I like Gary Matthews Jr.....he would have been a great fit on this team.

 

I agree though, it's sad how our guys are struggling in their walk year. They're the anti-Tartabull's right now.

 

Totally disagree. The only good player they have is Lee. Soriano was passable in the AL, their strating pitching is mediocre at best, their catcher is one of the worst defensive cathers in the league, and their bench is atrocious. They also happen to have a horrendous bullpen.

 

You don't think Aramis Ramirez is a good player?

[SleepyWhiteSox]

He dominated in the NL East last night in the worst hitter's park in the majors. How can you say their bench is atrocious when they have a fantastic defensive back-up catcher, a good hitting outfielder in either Murton or Floyd, a very good lefty hitter off the bench in Ward, and an outfielder they can play at every position with some speed in Pagan? If their bench is atrocious, then our bench is the worst in the history of baseball. Their bullpen does suck though...Howry is a pitching machine. Cotts does have a much better offspeed pitch this year....at least Aardsma is doing very well though.

 

Hmm, you seem to know the cubs a little too well...it's all adding up now.

[Balta1701]

I like Gary Matthews Jr.....he would have been a great fit on this team.

MLB and the Feds shut down his supplier.

[fathom]

Hmm, you seem to know the cubs a little too well...it's all adding up now.

 

I'm the biggest Cubs hater around....trust me! I've always admitted that I watch all of their games, as long as it's not going on during the Sox game. My least favorite person in the universe has to be Ron Santo....I can't believe he was b****ing about the pink bats on Sunday taking away from the spirit of the game.

 

MLB and the Feds shut down his supplier.

 

Roids or not, he's still playing damn well this year and is a great clubhouse guy.

[The Critic]

My least favorite person in the universe has to be Ron Santo....I can't believe he was b****ing about the pink bats on Sunday taking away from the spirit of the game.

He WAS????

Damn, what an asshole. If the pink bats were for diabetes research, he'd talk about them for a month beforehand and a month after. I guess some diseases are worse than others....

Always the self-centered jag.

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

If I had to choose one player for the rest of the year between the Cubs and Sox at each position

 

3B

Ramirez vs. Crede

 

SS

Izturis vs. Uribe

 

2B

Theriot vs. Iguchi

 

1B

Lee vs. Konerko

 

C

Barrett vs. Pierzynski

 

LF

Soriano vs. Sweeney (I believe he will be our LF the rest of the year)

 

CF

Pie vs. Erstad

 

RF

Jones vs. Dye

 

SP

Zambrano vs. Contreras

Lilly vs. Garland

Marquis vs. Buehrle

Hill vs. Vazquez

Miller vs. Danks

 

Closer

Dempster vs. Jenks

 

The rest of our middle relief is better