I hate to have to do this....

[RX Bandits]

My biggest concern with KW as a GM if we're going into rebuilding mode is that he has a bad history of trading veteran players for prospects.

i disagree. Those bad moves were made early in his GM days. I think he has shown great ability to see talent and pull the trigger (ie mccarthy for danks).

[fathom]

i disagree. Those bad moves were made early in his GM days. I think he has shown great ability to see talent and pull the trigger (ie mccarthy for danks).

 

That wasn't a veteran for a prospect though. I've made no secret of my disgust for the Garcia trade, which is the type of trade we'll see if we go into rebuilding mode.

 

i'd like to know who you guys want to lead this team that is available right now. c'mon, there is nobody really any damn good out there, and lets face it, ozzie has had back to back 90 win seasons. if you want to b**** about this year then i think a lot of it is on kenny. no lead off, bad CF, and really what is a lineup that is quickly getting kinda old.

 

How come no one addresses the fact that Ozzie wants a team with a speedy leadoff hitter? If he didn't care about that, then maybe we'd have more of a leadoff hitter focused on OBP. Considering our 3/4/5 sluggers, a 1 and 2 hitter who can get on base at a high rate is a hell of a lot more important than being able to play the mythical Ozzieball.

[GoodAsGould]

Its a known fact, every fan of every team hates their manager. Sometimes its warranted sometimes its not. Overall when I compare Ozzie's strengths and weaknesses to that of other managers, I think we got one of the better guys running our team.

[Gregory Pratt]

Its a known fact, every fan of every team hates their manager. Sometimes its warranted sometimes its not. Overall when I compare Ozzie's strengths and weaknesses to that of other managers, I think we got one of the better guys running our team.

 

Post of the thread

 

[Brian]

Its a known fact, every fan of every team hates their manager. Sometimes its warranted sometimes its not. Overall when I compare Ozzie's strengths and weaknesses to that of other managers, I think we got one of the better guys running our team.

 

I agree. It seems every move he makes, someone disagrees. So basically, if someone on this board or any other board was manager, we would be 18-20, rather than 20-18.

[rangercal]

Its a known fact, every fan of every team hates their manager. Sometimes its warranted sometimes its not. Overall when I compare Ozzie's strengths and weaknesses to that of other managers, I think we got one of the better guys running our team.

Well Said.

 

A little too well said for an idiot. <_>

[BobDylan]

And you would trust KW to rebuild this team? Why?

 

And what new manager would you want to bring in? Bobby Valentine? Buck Showalter? Cito Gaston? The same old recycled guys?

 

Let's say they lose Buehrle and Dye as Free Agents...do you really trust KW to rebuild, when we've had so many blown first round draft picks and busts in our farm system?

 

It's not just Ozzie Guillen, it's a systemic/endemic/organizational problem....front office, major league coaching staff, scouting, advanced scouting, minor league instruction.

 

You could fire Ozzie right now and we would still be a .500 team. Joe McCarthy or Connie Mack wouldn't get this team, as presently constituted, to 90 wins. We're incredibly fortunate to be over .500 at this point. You can give all the credit to the players for the wins and blame to Guillen for losses, but a team that scores less than it gives up is hardly ever in the playoffs. Not even Merlin the Magician can pull that one off, in cartoon movies.

 

Wow, I love when people twist my words. Did you not see the IF in my post? IF KW can rebuild the team. IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF.

 

And I'm not saying I dislike Ozzie Guillen. I'm just saying I feel if the team goes into rebuilding mode, it'll be with a new manager.

[rangercal]

I agree. It seems every move he makes, someone disagrees. So basically, if someone on this board or any other board was manager, we would be 18-20, rather than 20-18.

I think 18-20 is a little too kind for all the virtual managers,gms and owners.

[Brian]

KW got Gio back and also got Danks, who is surpassing expectations, IMO. Who knows how good Masset can be. We have drafted some decent talent as well with KW here, minus Royce Ring.

 

I can't NOT trust KW to rebuild.

[nitetrain8601]

KW got Gio back and also got Danks, who is surpassing expectations, IMO. Who knows how good Masset can be. We have drafted some decent talent as well with KW here, minus Royce Ring.

 

I can't NOT trust KW to rebuild.

 

Like who?

[Whitewashed in '05]

My biggest concern with KW as a GM if we're going into rebuilding mode is that he has a bad history of trading veteran players for prospects.

That is true, but after seeing how the market has been lately he has done a 180.

[WCSox]

You forgot to mention the one year we didn't make it, we won the World Series. You might have forgotten.

If you are going to blame him completely for the bad times, give him all the credit for the good times, too.

 

You guys crack me up!

 

+1

 

For Christ's sake, is it Ozzie's fault that McDougal has been sucking nuts for the past month or that Paulie is hitting below the Mendoza Line?

 

Ozzie may not be Sparky Anderson or Tony LaRussa, but the hatred here is just ridiculous.

[Brian]

Like who?

 

Fields, Sweeney, McCarthy (I know, I know), Honel, Haeger.

[WSoxMatt]

I believe in Ozzie, and I believe in KW!!!

[fathom]

Fields, Sweeney, McCarthy (I know, I know), Honel, Haeger.

 

Honel was a bust

[elrockinMT]

But it is necessary. I will make this antagonistic declaration right now, because it is needed and accurate. I have 2 thoughts for those of you who, after what Ozzie did from about 8 AM today until 4 PM today, still think he's anything other than a AT LEAST bad manager.

 

1. Your an idiot.

2. Go become a Cub fan, because only one of them could think anything else of Guillen after today.

 

If we miss the playoffs and he still has a job after this season, I also want Kenny fired as well simply for his loyalty to an idiot. Last year proved Ozzie is a bad manager, today proved that barring a playoff appearance, he must go. If we don't make it to October, I will not tolerate a bad manager with a big mouth who missed the playoffs 3 of his 4 seasons. Period.

 

 

If you hate to do this then don't

[nitetrain8601]

Fields, Sweeney, McCarthy (I know, I know), Honel, Haeger.

 

Oh, I see

A guy who doesn't have a position

A guy who had a nice swing until Greg Walker started giving him advice

An overrated player since day 1 who has yet to prove, he was anything more than that

A bust who broke his arm

A guy the Sox are fearful of giving a chance and probably won't start consistently with this team ever

 

If that's a good drafting history, I'm scared as hell for this franchise.

[CWSGuy406]

An overrated player since day 1 who has yet to prove, he was anything more than that

 

I agree with the general point that the Sox drafting/scouting has been poor, but you really can't bash Kenny for the McCarthy situation. If you truly believe McCarthy is/was an overrated pitcher, Kenny deserves a lot of credit for talking BMac up enough and getting one of the better left-handed prospects in all of baseball (Danks) for him.

 

For me, Danks = McCarthy when it comes to the Sox' drafting. No, the Sox didn't develop Danks or draft him, but they did with McCarthy and apparently did a good enough job to get one helluva pitcher in return.

[nitetrain8601]

I agree with the general point that the Sox drafting/scouting has been poor, but you really can't bash Kenny for the McCarthy situation. If you truly believe McCarthy is/was an overrated pitcher, Kenny deserves a lot of credit for talking BMac up enough and getting one of the better left-handed prospects in all of baseball (Danks) for him.

 

For me, Danks = McCarthy when it comes to the Sox' drafting. No, the Sox didn't develop Danks or draft him, but they did with McCarthy and apparently did a good enough job to get one helluva pitcher in return.

 

I disagree. They throw the same pitches, but one clearly has the better stuff and mindset. Sox fans were the ones who did the hype job on McCarthy. The guy was trash to begin with and I've always maintained that. Texas was stupid in thinking McCarthy was more ready than Danks, and then trading a LHP for a RHP.

[CWSGuy406]

I disagree. They throw the same pitches, but one clearly has the better stuff and mindset.

 

I probably wasn't very clear, but you read my post wrong. When I say McCarthy = Danks, I'm not comparing them as pitchers. I'm comparing them as products of the farm system. So when somebody says, "Which players have been produced under Kenny's farm?", I think Danks qualifies. He didn't directly come from the Sox farm system, but he's still a product of the system because of the good job the Sox did with McCarthy.

 

The guy was trash to begin with and I've always maintained that.

 

This is just plain wrong. McCarthy earned a lot of the hype he got. He dominated the minors like no pitcher I've seen in my young life from the Sox' farm system, and he was the Sox' best pitcher down the stretch in 2005. We might not make the playoffs without BMac. People forget just how dominant he was for us in 2005 -- in September and October, 35 innings pitched while allowing all of eight (!) runs.

Edited May 19, 2007 by CWSGuy406

[nitetrain8601]

I probably wasn't very clear, but you read my post wrong. When I say McCarthy = Danks, I'm not comparing them as pitchers. I'm comparing them as products of the farm system. So when somebody says, "Which players have been produced under Kenny's farm?", I think Danks qualifies. He didn't directly come from the Sox farm system, but he's still a product of the system because of the good job the Sox did with McCarthy.

This is just plain wrong. McCarthy earned a lot of the hype he got. He dominated the minors like no pitcher I've seen in my young life from the Sox' farm system, and he was the Sox' best pitcher down the stretch in 2005. We might not make the playoffs without BMac. People forget just how dominant he was for us in 2005 -- in September and October, 35 innings pitched while allowing all of eight (!) runs.

 

*cough* Jose Contreras *cough*

 

I don't consider Danks part of the farm system considering he never spent a second of his time there. Jenks is more of a product of our farm system than Danks. McCarthy didn't deserve most of the hype he had. He had a couple of good games and Sox fans jumped on his jock like they did with Boone Logan and Jeff Baj.

[CWSGuy406]

*cough* Jose Contreras *cough*

 

Contreras gave up three more runs in about ten more innings pitched in Sept/Oct of 2005. Either way, it was very comparable.

 

McCarthy didn't deserve most of the hype he had.

 

You still have yet to prove this.

[whitesoxfan101]

*bump*

 

This wasn't quite as bad as yesterday, but it was still atrocious.

[fathom]

Brandon McCarthy was never the savior that people thought he'd be, but he also might have been the most vital pitcher we had, along with Contreras, during the 2nd half of 2005. He had some huge games that helped stop losing streaks.