I know unless we can pull a miracle we are most likely done but why do they keep going to this guy. He either has nothing left or has some kind of arm trouble, can't we start working on a new 5th starter and give him some time off in bullpen or maybe put him on the DL if there is some problem with his arm and maybe save something for next season. I know that anybody we throw in there can't do any worse than Jose whether its Haeger , Gio who is doing well in Birmingham, Masset, Gavin Floyd who has had decent stats in Charlotte, or Lance Broadway. Maybe even put Jose in the bullpen and use him as a spot starter or something, rather than act like nothing is wrong.

I'd have to agree with everything you said.

He's kind of Kip Wells-ish right now.

 

I wouldn't mind him in the pen at all. Charlie Haeger is supposed to start a game against Detroit, right? Maybe he will show something.

Too bad the Sox will be unable to trade him now...

I think at this point we just hope his velocity gets up and he has a decent second half. Just because our team is basically out of it doesn't mean we have to trade him by July 31. We can always trade him in the offseason. I'd still take him over the Jeff Suppans and Woody Williams of the league. Contreras still has a good arm. Maybe if Danks steps up, Contreras could move to the fith spot.

 

Of his 19 starts, 9 of those starts he went at least 6 innings and gave up 3 or less earned runs (QS?). And one of the 19 starts he went 5 innings and gave up 1 ER. He has been shelled alot though.

I have a feeling he's gonna end up with the Brewers-

You have to look for some positives in Jose's start against Boston. The silver lining if you will. I know it's hard when you consider we lost 10-3, but there are some positives. The velocity on his fastball is up to where it should be now and his split finger looked good. I think he was left in too long and I don't know the reason for that when we had two or three rested releivers that could have come in the game. I think Contreras is the main picther on the block right now, but it really will boil down to what we can get in return. Jose can still pitch, but he has no confidence in himself when the tuff stuff starts coming his way. We have a very strong nucleus in the starting pitching area: Buerhle-Garland-Vazquez and even Danks is showing much promise. Contrears is still a professional with a big upside, if we keep him for next year. You don't blow up your team's strength because of one bad year. But, by trading Contretras for something good in return we could save enough in salary to resign Dye and Iguchi and still work the free agent market, if there really is anybody out there this off season we could use. Otherwise the concern I see with this team is the bullpen-not the starting pitching. People were calling for Massett to start after one 5 inning game and now we want to try Haeger. I think Haeger is a bullpen guy and spot starter, not a rotation man. The point I am making is that you can't make long term decisions based on one or two weeks of games.

If we cant deal him by the deadline I would just shut him down for the rest of the season.

Seriously, what in the world is the harm of giving Gavin Floyd the next 2 months to see if he can't start adapting into a real big league pitcher?

Seriously, what in the world is the harm of giving Gavin Floyd the next 2 months to see if he can't start adapting into a real big league pitcher?

 

Because certain members of our organization think we still have a shot.

Because certain members of our organization think we still have a shot.

At this point, which pitcher gives us the best chance to win a ballgame, Floyd or Contreras?

At this point, which pitcher gives us the best chance to win a ballgame, Floyd or Contreras?

 

After what I saw in the 8th inning last night, I can't answer questions like that anymore.

I'd have to agree with everything you said.

He's kind of Kip Wells-ish right now.

 

I think he's Todd Richie-ish right now.

Contrares should be traded to any team that will pick up his salary. He is completely useless to us right now. Actually, hes worse than useless because he is preventing us form developing our younger pitchers up here.

It looks to me like Contreras days are about finished as a started. I would use him in short relief myself. I sort of doubt if we could get much in a trade for him with the record he has this year.

After what I saw in the 8th inning last night, I can't answer questions like that anymore.

 

Then you need to re-evaluate yourself as a judge of baseball players. Jose Contreras at 1000 > Gavin Floyd in high school.

 

You and I both know there are a lot of things holding Floyd back and he'll never be good. Contreras, bad though he's been this year and will likely be for the rest of his career, is better and gives us a better chance to win a ballgame. The only reason to take Floyd over Contreras is $$$

It looks to me like Contreras days are about finished as a started. I would use him in short relief myself. I sort of doubt if we could get much in a trade for him with the record he has this year.

We've been told repeatedly that Jose has a very long and involved routine warming up for games he pitches, which may not translate well to the bullpen.

 

But then again, at some point, maybe you do have to give it a shot. Guy throwing up a 90 mph fastball and a big breaking forkball could be pretty good out of the pen.

Seriously, what in the world is the harm of giving Gavin Floyd the next 2 months to see if he can't start adapting into a real big league pitcher?

 

 

I see no harm in it. Too put it nicely, I don't think Floyd will show much, but I'd give him a shot now rather then next year when we are in contention.

 

 

 

Bob

I see no harm in it. Too put it nicely, I don't think Floyd will show much, but I'd give him a shot now rather then next year when we are in contention.

Bob

 

I agree on giving Floyd a shot.. but I can't see how this team is in contention with no farm, Old players not preforming and a high payroll right now.

Because certain members of our organization think we still have a shot.

 

If you honestly believe that Kenny Williams still thinks that, you're a lot more dense than I thought.

 

Ozzie saying it is one thing -- what is he supposed to say? -- but at this point, I really doubt Kenny isn't fielding just about every offer for Dye, Mackowiak, Contreras, Thorton, Iguchi etc.

The only reason to take Floyd over Contreras is $$$

 

No, not really -- it's because Floyd has nothing left to do at AAA. He can get AAA hitters out. I want to find out if he can get big league hitters out.

 

And let's not get into the Gavin Floyd "mentality" discussion. Everybody said Jon Garland was a mental midget when he first entered the league -- apparently he didn't punch enough lockers or throw enough water jugs when he had a bad outing. People didn't like that he maintained a calm demeanor win and lose, so they took that as him not caring.

Does anybody truly believe at this point that Contreras is not hurt?

Seriously, what in the world is the harm of giving Gavin Floyd the next 2 months to see if he can't start adapting into a real big league pitcher?

 

Its time for Floyd. It is going to take a while for him to get over the mental hump at the major league level, and he might as well due it while we are sucking hind tit.

If you honestly believe that Kenny Williams still thinks that, you're a lot more dense than I thought.

 

Ozzie saying it is one thing -- what is he supposed to say? -- but at this point, I really doubt Kenny isn't fielding just about every offer for Dye, Mackowiak, Contreras, Thorton, Iguchi etc.

 

KW doesn't think we have what it takes, and I don't think he's actually thought we had a chance for over two months. However, Ozzie will continue to play the veterans over the rookies whenever he can.

Then you need to re-evaluate yourself as a judge of baseball players. Jose Contreras at 1000 > Gavin Floyd in high school.

 

What I meant by that quote is that everything I ever thought about the game of baseball was slapped in the face by how Ozzie Guillen managed the 8th inning. If that's what a good manager does, then I don't know anything.