The environment thread

[iamshack]

You'd be surprised how many of the nuke plants have zero signing and are a huge pain in the ass to find.

Especially now, with some of the threats that power plants have come under recently.

[StrangeSox]

Especially now, with some of the threats that power plants have come under recently.

Taking down the signage is more to keep low-level stuff away, pretty much just protesters, e.g. Y-12 incident.

[iamshack]

Taking down the signage is more to keep low-level stuff away, pretty much just protesters, e.g. Y-12 incident.

So what are your thoughts on residential solar? You guys probably are not getting this yet because of your location, but we've had massive advertising this past year for residential solar. Basically, the company installs a rooftop system free of charge but makes you sign a power purchase agreement for 20-30 years.

 

The utilities are not pleased with this because we're the ones who've paid (and continue to maintain) for the infrastructure (the distribution system) to make this possible.

[StrangeSox]

So what are your thoughts on residential solar? You guys probably are not getting this yet because of your location, but we've had massive advertising this past year for residential solar. Basically, the company installs a rooftop system free of charge but makes you sign a power purchase agreement for 20-30 years.

 

The utilities are not pleased with this because we're the ones who've paid (and continue to maintain) for the infrastructure (the distribution system) to make this possible.

 

I've seen solar everywhere in the country except for the Midwest. Even up in the New England area, there was a ton of residential solar, and the Pacific NW as well. I'm 100% in support of a more distributed energy system, and rooftop solar seems like an important part of mid- to long-term energy infrastructure. I understand the basics of the distribution system funding issue, but I'm not sure the best way to address that.

[Chisoxfn]

So what are your thoughts on residential solar? You guys probably are not getting this yet because of your location, but we've had massive advertising this past year for residential solar. Basically, the company installs a rooftop system free of charge but makes you sign a power purchase agreement for 20-30 years.

 

The utilities are not pleased with this because we're the ones who've paid (and continue to maintain) for the infrastructure (the distribution system) to make this possible.

Its pretty popular out here. However, those lease deals usually aren't as good as buying your own equipment. That said, obviously up-front money vs. the alternative. Solar city is a big one out here that is doing it. The new homes being built now usually come with a few and then you can upgrade (for a pretty minimal cost, especially when you consider it can be financed as part of the house with the interest being tax deductible) and then you can be fully self dependent and even make a few bucks selling back to Edison or whomever your power company is.

 

Very interesting point you make though about the infrastructure investments of the power companies. Personally I think the idea is great as the more energy self sufficient we can become, the better. I also think there have already been significant improvements (from what I've read) in the capabilities of these panels and I'm curious to see that with the increase in demand, how much better the capabilities get as more money gets invested in the space which drives more R&D.

[iamshack]

Its pretty popular out here. However, those lease deals usually aren't as good as buying your own equipment. That said, obviously up-front money vs. the alternative. Solar city is a big one out here that is doing it. The new homes being built now usually come with a few and then you can upgrade (for a pretty minimal cost, especially when you consider it can be financed as part of the house with the interest being tax deductible) for a pretty minimal cost (and then you can be fully self dependent and even make a few bucks selling back to Edison or whomever your power company is).

 

Very interesting point you make though about the infrastructure investments of the power companies. Personally I think the idea is great as the more energy self sufficient we can become, the better. I also think there have already been significant improvements (from what I've read) in the capabilities of these panels and I'm curious to see that with the increase in demand, how much better the capabilities get as more money gets invested in the space which drives more R&D.

Yeah, I think Nevada and California are being hit with the same wave right now. The prices have come down to the point where it makes sense for the companies to install the equipment if you exceed a certain threshold of power use. It certainly is a bad deal for the consumer, but like you said, it does make it available to more folks, but then they are just paying Solar City instead of the utility company. The advertising is ridiculous right now. I'll be driving in to work (at the power company) and they will be criticizing us for retiring coal and developing solar ourselves, and then in the next sentence selling their rooftop solar. Pretty humorous.

 

 

 

 

[Chisoxfn]

Yeah, I think Nevada and California are being hit with the same wave right now. The prices have come down to the point where it makes sense for the companies to install the equipment if you exceed a certain threshold of power use. It certainly is a bad deal for the consumer, but like you said, it does make it available to more folks, but then they are just paying Solar City instead of the utility company. The advertising is ridiculous right now. I'll be driving in to work (at the power company) and they will be criticizing us for retiring coal and developing solar ourselves, and then in the next sentence selling their rooftop solar. Pretty humorous.

The net savings is probably over-inflated based upon what i've read on solar city. There are a lot of subsidies out there that can help from a purchase standpoint, but in reality, to get the best bang for your buck, you have to be a pretty big user of energy. My electric bill ranges from $35 to $100 bucks depending on how hot it is during the summer, so until we get a bigger place, or prices are just dirt cheap, I wouldn't even consider it. However, when we eventually get a bigger house for our growing family, if we do buy new, I can tell you, given the current price builders charge, I would be all over it. Most of the builders out here, you can have a full retro-fit that for less then $8K (often times as little as 3K, depending on the builder), with 30 year warranty, etc. Supposedly that amount can handle a bill around $200/month out here (not sure on the kilowats which is what really matters) and then if you use less, you get a portion back as an actual credit.

[StrangeSox]

Hundreds of thousands marched in NYC this Sunday for the Peoples Climate movement.

 

http://time.com/3415162/peoples-climate-ma...-demonstration/

 

 

[Chisoxfn]

Hundreds of thousands marched in NYC this Sunday for the Peoples Climate movement.

 

http://time.com/3415162/peoples-climate-ma...-demonstration/

I heard about it a few different times when I was in the subway last week (was there for work). People all around yelling and telling you to be at the demonstration. They did a good job getting the message out.

[StrangeSox]

Worldwide, wildlife numbers are down 50% since 1970.

 

http://online.wsj.com/articles/report-wild...085197?mod=e2tw

 

Earth lost half its wildlife in the past four decades, according to the most comprehensive study of animal populations to date, a far larger decline than previously reported.

 

The new study was conducted by scientists at the wildlife group WWF, the Zoological Society of London and other organizations. Based on an analysis of thousands of vertebrate species, it concludes that overall animal populations fell 52% between 1970 and 2010.

 

The decline was seen everywhere—in rivers, on land and in the seas—and is mainly the result of increased habitat destruction, commercial fishing and hunting, the report said. Climate change also is believed to be a factor, though its consequences are harder to measure.

 

We seem well on our way to a sixth great extinction.

[Jenksismyhero]

Damn Darwinism.

[NorthSideSox72]

Damn Darwinism.

It's not about the fact that earth and all the ecosystems will adjust. Of course they will. Wanting to protect the environment is not really about "saving the earth" like the green crowd tries to make it. That's one of the biggest mistakes being made, constantly, by that movement. What they should be arguing, which is more to the point, is that the earth will be just fine - the question is what the earth will do in response to what we're doing. It's like one large, incredibly complex living thing. The more you do to it, the more it responds, and that generally isn't a good thing for humans.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Morons:

 

http://gizmodo.com/how-greenpeace-wrecked-...s-in-1669873583

[StrangeSox]

that is pretty awful

[NorthSideSox72]

Morons:

 

http://gizmodo.com/how-greenpeace-wrecked-...s-in-1669873583

 

Idiots.

 

[StrangeSox]

I watched DamNation on Netflix the other day, and it was pretty interesting to learn a little bit more about the ecological impacts of "green" hydropower.

 

One of the focuses of the film is the restoration of the Elwha river on the Olympic Peninsula in Washington. My wife and I decided to stop there on the last day of our trip earlier this year, and I'm really glad we did. You can walk around the former Elwha dam site and continue a little ways down to the old dam-formed lake. You see the stumps of old-growth trees that were cut down and submerged a century ago.

 

[StrangeSox]

There was a huge chemical spill in West Virginia last week that has left 300,000 residents without clean water.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Elk_River_chemical_spill

 

http://www.wvgazette.com/News/201401100100

FBI charges president of company responsible for West Virginia chemical spill

 

Gary Southern has been charged with bankruptcy fraud, wire fraud and lying under oath

[farmteam]

Morons:

 

http://gizmodo.com/how-greenpeace-wrecked-...s-in-1669873583

Absolutely thoughtless.

[southsider2k5]

This probably goes here as well as anywhere else, but the crazy thing is that this is an old radio partner of mine in college, and someone who stood up in my wedding... a very good friend of mine.

 

http://wgntv.com/2014/12/13/vegan-teacher-...-facebook-post/

[Jake]

Provided that this post was not obviously incendiary ("break open those crates!"), which we don't know for sure, and that this is a public school, it's a sad thing that this guy lost his job. The local farmers aren't donors, they are taxpayers. They don't have the right to like the personal beliefs of all local public school faculty

[cabiness42]

Doing some shopping today and walking in the parking lot behind a young couple that had just gotten out of a Prius plastered with every pro-environment and anti-Republican bumper sticker you could imagine. Both promptly stomped their cigarettes out on the ground before entering the store.

[NorthSideSox72]

Doing some shopping today and walking in the parking lot behind a young couple that had just gotten out of a Prius plastered with every pro-environment and anti-Republican bumper sticker you could imagine. Both promptly stomped their cigarettes out on the ground before entering the store.

But were the cigarettes organic?

 

[southsider2k5]

Provided that this post was not obviously incendiary ("break open those crates!"), which we don't know for sure, and that this is a public school, it's a sad thing that this guy lost his job. The local farmers aren't donors, they are taxpayers. They don't have the right to like the personal beliefs of all local public school faculty

 

He didn't. I do know for sure.

 

In a broader sense, this is an interesting case. I know more and more people are getting hit for what they do in their personal lives. I have read about female teachers being fired for posing topless, for example.

[StrangeSox]

As good of an argument as any in favor of due process rights through tenure or some other means.

 

edit: wouldn't have helped your friend since it sounds like he's year-to-year, though.

Edited December 15, 2014 by StrangeSox

[StrangeSox]

Apparently there's a bit of a ideological civil war going on in the conservationist world

 

The squabbling—the most recent phase of it, at least—began more than two years ago, when Peter Kareiva, the chief scientist for the Nature Conservancy, and Michelle Marvier, an environmental-studies professor at Santa Clara University, in California, published a paper titled “What Is Conservation Science?” It reëxamined an influential 1985 article by the biologist Michael Soulé, which had defined conservation biology as a “crisis-driven discipline” dedicated to safeguarding biodiversity regardless of its value to humans. Kareiva and Marvier argued that now, more than a quarter century after its founding, the field needed a framework that took human welfare into account. “We do not wish to undermine the ethical motivations for conservation action,” they wrote. “We argue that nature also merits conservation for very practical and more self-centered reasons concerning what nature and healthy ecosystems provide to humanity.”

 

There's also a pretty good profile here of the Nature Conservancy's shift at the national level to working more with industry to mitigate effects than simply buying off parcels of land for preservation.

 

Relatedly, The Nature Conservancy recently reintroduced bison to the Nachusa Grasslands out near Dixon, IL.