greg775 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Good pickup by the Tigers. One of our rivals. Not good. Renteria is much greater than Uribe. Much greater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 QUOTE(klaus kinski @ Oct 29, 2007 -> 07:27 PM) Point is-they gave up NOTHING to strengthen them significantly. WE will trade Garland an established starting pitcher, and get less. Thats the faith I have in Williams The Tigers did strengthen themselves significantly, if the 2008 season had already happened and it was called 2007. They essentially replaced Sean Casey with Renteria. They improve their defense at ss (though I'm not sure how much, don't know if Renteria is even better than average anymore). They lose Casey with a career .816 OPS in favor of Renteria with his career .756 OPS. Basically over the past 3 years, the difference between the two is Renteria's career year last year in the NL. His last time in the AL he sported an OPS+ of 89 and an OPS of .720. So they upped their payroll by $6 million for an upgrade at ss on defense (and a li'l speed on the basepaths, though not a basestealer anymore). The guy they got and the guy they drop both exist within each other's margins of reasonable potential outcomes with the bat for next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 QUOTE(fathom @ Oct 29, 2007 -> 07:33 PM) Very similar to their Sheffield trade last year. It is very similar to that trade. Big name vet. Taking on salary. I said at that time that I didn't think Sheff would actually improve their 07 offense much over 06 because he was basically taking the at bats away from Thames and Monroe. Thames/Monroe in 06 combined for an OPS of .822 Sheffield in 2007 .839 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockren Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I happen to think this was a great trade for Atlanta. I really like Rent, but to clear room for Escobar and to clear salary- that concept alone is great. They're getting a MLB ready arm (Jurrjens looked to have had pretty good stuff in the limited time I saw him and will make the Braves rotation next year). This Hernandez played in the Futures Game last year, hit .293 and stole 54 bases in A-Ball last year. This was a great deal for Atlanta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 There have been mentions of whether or not this deal means ARodrig is unlikely to go to the Tigres. While I certainly don't think Inge is in any way blocking him from being picked up, it would be an astronomical jump for their payroll, over what already seems to me a pretty significant increase. If these contract numbers are right (and correct me if I'm wrong), some Tigers' raises for 08 over 07: Mags $3 mil Shef $1 mil Pudge $2 mil Guillen $7 mil Bonderman $4 mil Inge $1.3 mil Renteria $6 mil (subtracted out Casey's 07 salary) ...all that and they haven't paid for Timo yet not sure what will happen with regard to potential free agents Ken Rogers $8mil and T. Jones $5 mil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHITESOXRANDY Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 wow, ATL got raped Atlanta did not get raped. They got, basically, the Sox equivalent of Ryan Sweeney and Gio Gonzalez for a SS they can easily replace. Sure Renteria is good and I'd like to have him on the Sox but he's only signed for this year and an $ 11 mil. option next year plus he's not quite as good as he once was. He doesn't run much anymore like he used to. I think Atlanta did very well in this deal. And, the Tigers did well also. What does this say about the available FA SS's out there ? Why didn't the Tigers go after Eckstein ? I guess they figured there isn't much and a trade is necessary. Hello....White Sox ....??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 QUOTE(WHITESOXRANDY @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 09:17 AM) Atlanta did not get raped. They got, basically, the Sox equivalent of Ryan Sweeney and Gio Gonzalez for a SS they can easily replace. Sure Renteria is good and I'd like to have him on the Sox but he's only signed for this year and an $ 11 mil. option next year plus he's not quite as good as he once was. He doesn't run much anymore like he used to. I think Atlanta did very well in this deal. And, the Tigers did well also. What does this say about the available FA SS's out there ? Why didn't the Tigers go after Eckstein ? I guess they figured there isn't much and a trade is necessary. Hello....White Sox ....??? It says the free agent shortstop - ie, the only one who I would legitimately ever consider starting for my team, David Eckstein - is bad. Tejada and Furcal are both still on the market, and I see one ending up in a Sox uniform, most likely Furcal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I'd be very happy to land Furcal. He answers our two most blatant questions of SS and leadoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 11:45 AM) I'd be very happy to land Furcal. He answers our two most blatant questions of SS and leadoff. I get the feeling that KW is going hard after him under the radar. He knows he is a good fit, and he knows we can get him somewhat cheaply because of his contract and the Dodgers young talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 10:10 AM) I get the feeling that KW is going hard after him under the radar. He knows he is a good fit, and he knows we can get him somewhat cheaply because of his contract and the Dodgers young talent. I've learned that a lot of us seem very poor at guessing what KW is doing under the radar. Out of every deal he's made in the last couple years, the only ones we seemed to even suspect beforehand were the Erstad signing and the Thome trade, and the Thome trade hit us pretty rapidly anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockren Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 11:10 AM) I get the feeling that KW is going hard after him under the radar. He knows he is a good fit, and he knows we can get him somewhat cheaply because of his contract and the Dodgers young talent. I agree on Furcal, but I hope it doesn't cost us Garland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 11:45 AM) I'd be very happy to land Furcal. He answers our two most blatant questions of SS and leadoff. Since you are one to rip ARod for a couple of bad postseasons, have you ever checked out Furcal's postseason stats. Except for 1 season, pretty brutal. He gets about $13 million next year, his final year, so thats not too favorable, plus he's been convicted of DUI twice. I hope KW stays away. Edited October 30, 2007 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockren Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 11:14 AM) I've learned that a lot of us seem very poor at guessing what KW is doing under the radar. Out of every deal he's made in the last couple years, the only ones we seemed to even suspect beforehand were the Erstad signing and the Thome trade, and the Thome trade hit us pretty rapidly anyway. I hope Kenny sticks to his low-balling FAs this off-season. I've got a bad feeling about guys like Eckstein and Hunter. Those guys are going to get way more than they're worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Since you are one to rip ARod for a couple of bad postseasons, have you ever checked out Furcal's postseason stats. Except for 1 season, pretty brutal. He gets about $13 million next year, his final year, so thats not too favorable, plus he's been convicted of DUI twice. I hope KW stays away. I agree. If we're going to spend $13 million for a SS, why not Tejada? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 04:33 PM) I agree. If we're going to spend $13 million for a SS, why not Tejada? Furcal is the better defender. Is much faster/ steals bases. Would fill our hole at leadoff. Meanwhile, Tejada is not 2004 Tejada. His slugging has dropped in each of the last 4 years. Furcal put up better power numbers in 2006 than Tejada did in 2007. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 QUOTE(Vance Law @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 07:02 PM) Furcal is the better defender. Is much faster/ steals bases. Would fill our hole at leadoff. Meanwhile, Tejada is not 2004 Tejada. His slugging has dropped in each of the last 4 years. Furcal put up better power numbers in 2006 than Tejada did in 2007. And that means...absolutely nothing. Tejada has outslugged Furcal every single year, and he'll do it again next year. Hitting-wise, I take Tejada in a heartbeat. Furcal's ops+ the last 4 years has been 95, 102, 107, 76. Tejada's has been 131, 128, 126, 109. They each had a fluke bad year, and Tejada still DRASTICALLY outperformed Furcal. The question is whether Tejada's still good enough defensively to hold down ss. There's talk in Baltimore of shifting him to 3b, with Mora moving to lf -- and note that the Orioles don't have any young, decent hitting ss pushing him, either. The other issue is, since Ozzie's gotta have his speedster to leadoff, it'd be nice to get someone who fits that profile who can actually hit. That and defense are the 2 advantages to Furcal. But his bat is leagues behind Tejada's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 04:56 PM) And that means...absolutely nothing. Tejada has outslugged Furcal every single year, and he'll do it again next year. Hitting-wise, I take Tejada in a heartbeat. Furcal's ops+ the last 4 years has been 95, 102, 107, 76. Tejada's has been 131, 128, 126, 109. They each had a fluke bad year, and Tejada still DRASTICALLY outperformed Furcal. The question is whether Tejada's still good enough defensively to hold down ss. There's talk in Baltimore of shifting him to 3b, with Mora moving to lf -- and note that the Orioles don't have any young, decent hitting ss pushing him, either. The other issue is, since Ozzie's gotta have his speedster to leadoff, it'd be nice to get someone who fits that profile who can actually hit. That and defense are the 2 advantages to Furcal. But his bat is leagues behind Tejada's. All of that assumes though that the price for the 2 players would be equal. I would seriously expect Tejada to be much more expensive in terms of what we'd have to give up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 09:16 PM) All of that assumes though that the price for the 2 players would be equal. I would seriously expect Tejada to be much more expensive in terms of what we'd have to give up. I don't disagree. I was just comparing the two as players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 08:22 PM) I don't disagree. I was just comparing the two as players. Furcal fits our needs much better with defense and with a lead off hitter. Tejada is not a fit whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 07:56 PM) There's talk in Baltimore of shifting him to 3b, with Mora moving to lf -- and note that the Orioles don't have any young, decent hitting ss pushing him, either. Yep. You know who that SS will be? Juan Uribe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 11:56 PM) Furcal fits our needs much better with defense and with a lead off hitter. Tejada is not a fit whatsoever. Our only "need" is to score more than they do. Tejada would help us score more than Furcal would. Furcal would keep them from scoring more than Tejada would. Each "fits", it's just a matter of trying to balance those two sides and the cost of acquiring them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockren Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 QUOTE(knightni @ Oct 31, 2007 -> 02:06 AM) Yep. You know who that SS will be? Juan Uribe God I hope so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHITESOXRANDY Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 1. I'd really like the Sox to hold onto Uribe. I'm hoping they can get him at a reduced price. He's still young and can improve offensively. If they can't make a deal for a SS then he'll suffice. But, if they do make a deal, I'd still want him as insurance or 2B or utility. The guy has value. 2. I don't think Tejada is coming to the Sox. Firstly, Baltimore is hell to deal with and why Tejada is still there. A good organization would have moved him already. Also, he's ageing, declining and slowing and was probably a juicer. I wouldn't give up that much for him or expect much from him for the rest of his career. 3. Furcal would be a nice fit but he's only signed for 2008. Then, he'll likely be gone. So, how much do you want to give up for him ? Are the Sox going for it all this year ? I don't think so. If the Sox give up Garland for him to go for it this year, then they need to make a dominant bullpen to stand a chance. They could easily end up with nothing for Garland after 2008. I think that's bad General Managing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted October 31, 2007 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 QUOTE(rockren @ Oct 31, 2007 -> 06:36 AM) God I hope so. Way to aim high. Enjoy the overweight corkscrew swinging at pitches bounced in. I forget, Hawk tells people that he can carry the team. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Oct 31, 2007 -> 08:46 AM) Way to aim high. Enjoy the overweight corkscrew swinging at pitches bounced in. I forget, Hawk tells people that he can carry the team. LOL I thought he meant that Uribe would be on the Orioles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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