Brian Anderson's strong words about Winter Ball...

[SkokieSox]

If his attitude is bad and he can't hit and he won't work on it, he's not going to get better so he should be released. But the White Sox aren't releasing him. Something tells me there's a little more to the story.

 

The talent is there to possibly be a good MLB player, he just hasn't shown it yet. Releasing him would be a bad idea because he at least as some value in trade, even if it is a low level prospect or an addition in a larger deal. Maybe there's more, but going by what we in fact know, Anderson appears to be a whiner to me.

[Dick Allen]

The talent is there to possibly be a good MLB player, he just hasn't shown it yet. Releasing him would be a bad idea because he at least as some value in trade, even if it is a low level prospect or an addition in a larger deal. Maybe there's more, but going by what we in fact know, Anderson appears to be a whiner to me.

. One thing to keep in mind with Brian Anderson is this was probably the first time he's ever failed at baseball. He most likely has always been a star and treated like royalty. Especially in basketball, its amazing how 7th and 8th grade kids are put on a shrine now. Then something goes wrong and they really don't know how to handle it. I think KW understands. He was a guy who was highly regarded, came in had a nice year as a 22 or 23 year old, stardom was predicted and he then couldn't hit. Up until that point, I really doubt KW had many failings in athletics in his life. I really don't think its as much an attitude problem as it is confusion and frustration as to why everything just hasn't worked out.

[jackie hayes]

Was it written in green, or do I know the writer personally or something? You really need to learn how to communicate sarcasm. In any case, he's not complaining about being healthy, he's complaining about being sent down, not being called up, and being told to go to winter ball without a personal visit from KW, Ozzie, and JR with some flowers and *** kissing about how great they think he is, despite his inability to hit the ball.

As CWSGuy406 pointed out, I was talking about supernuke's post, not mine. When it's that obvious, green isn't needed.

 

You said that even stars go to winter ball. My point is that it's much riskier for Anderson to go because he's not a star and he's injured. He wants a shot, it won't come here, why make yourself look worse than you are? The article does state that he's still recovering from the injury.

 

Obviously his comments go beyond that. (I never said they didn't.) Feel free to interpret them however you like. I look at them differently. I'm sure he wants out pretty bad, and the Sox have held onto him for a year and a half without any intention of playing him again. Maybe he's trying to force their hand. You can look at that as whining, or just recognizing that the clock ticks fast for prospects. Next year is basically his last shot. Who wouldn't want to get out asap?

[SkokieSox]

. One thing to keep in mind with Brian Anderson is this was probably the first time he's ever failed at baseball. He most likely has always been a star and treated like royalty. Especially in basketball, its amazing how 7th and 8th grade kids are put on a shrine now. Then something goes wrong and they really don't know how to handle it. I think KW understands. He was a guy who was highly regarded, came in had a nice year as a 22 or 23 year old, stardom was predicted and he then couldn't hit. Up until that point, I really doubt KW had many failings in athletics in his life. I really don't think its as much an attitude problem as it is confusion and frustration as to why everything just hasn't worked out.

 

You're probably right, I guess I'm just frustrated like him. I hope the guy gets another shot, and produces. As it looks though, he won't be the starting CF for the Sox. I'm not sure where we go from here with him...

[SkokieSox]

As CWSGuy406 pointed out, I was talking about supernuke's post, not mine. When it's that obvious, green isn't needed.

 

You said that even stars go to winter ball. My point is that it's much riskier for Anderson to go because he's not a star and he's injured. He wants a shot, it won't come here, why make yourself look worse than you are? The article does state that he's still recovering from the injury.

 

Obviously his comments go beyond that. (I never said they didn't.) Feel free to interpret them however you like. I look at them differently. I'm sure he wants out pretty bad, and the Sox have held onto him for a year and a half without any intention of playing him again. Maybe he's trying to force their hand. You can look at that as whining, or just recognizing that the clock ticks fast for prospects. Next year is basically his last shot. Who wouldn't want to get out asap?

 

I realize he's injured, but the point is about him whining, not whether he takes the assignment. And that injury has a lot to do with him not being called back up, so saying the Sox have not intended to play him is pure speculation, and as you say, I see things differently.

 

I would want to get out and play for a non-contender too, in order to have another shot as a starter in CF. If the Sox pick up a FA, he obviously won't be in their plans in that capacity. Again though, this is not my argument. I'm merely disappointed with his comments, even if he is frustrated, because his complaints are not justified with his play or health. If you have a wrist injury and can't play winter ball, why are you talking about getting personal phone calls from the GM about his plans for you in 08? Get healthy, and show you can play. As it stands, how can he possibly believe he deserves the red carpet treatment?

[max power]

This sarcasm conversation sucks ass, yet I keep reading it.

[jackie hayes]

I realize he's injured, but the point is about him whining, not whether he takes the assignment. And that injury has a lot to do with him not being called back up, so saying the Sox have not intended to play him is pure speculation, and as you say, I see things differently.

 

I would want to get out and play for a non-contender too, in order to have another shot as a starter in CF. If the Sox pick up a FA, he obviously won't be in their plans in that capacity. Again though, this is not my argument. I'm merely disappointed with his comments, even if he is frustrated, because his complaints are not justified with his play or health. If you have a wrist injury and can't play winter ball, why are you talking about getting personal phone calls from the GM about his plans for you in 08? Get healthy, and show you can play. As it stands, how can he possibly believe he deserves the red carpet treatment?

He never said he wanted personal phone calls from the GM. He said, "But I have to assume when a guy is somewhat in a team's plans and gets hurt, and his season is over, I would assume someone in the organization, front office-wise, would check up on you and give you a rundown for what their plans are for you." Considering the part in bold, I took it as, 'Look, I know you don't want me here.' He also hints at that in saying, "If someone wants to come and tell me something, I can handle it. If I can handle hitting .225 in the big leagues, I can handle getting news that's not too great about me."

 

As for the rest, he's asking how it will benefit him, personally. ("It would be nice to talk to someone and find out why I'm going there and as to how it will benefit me.") That's not asking for "red carpet treatment". He's saying he doesn't know what his incentive is to go to winter ball. Honestly, I don't think he has any.

[santo=dorf]

The White Sox did screw Anderson. I don't think they screw players development on purpose. They do like to make players they get rid of look not as good as they are perceived. They threw him in CF on a defending championship team, when apparently he wasn't ready to handle it, and really had no plan B. Even when it appeared apparent he was in a little over his head, they did nothing. Ozzie was quoted in spring training 2006 that he didn't care what Anderson hit, what he worried about was Anderson's defense. Anderson performed fine defensively and didn't hit. Then all of a sudden, his hitting did matter. Anderson hit something like .250 the second half of the season, and was basically given no shot in 2007. Yet players that got on base about as often as him in Owens, Fields and Richar supposedly figure prominently in future plans. If the White Sox can't get him to watch film and work on his game instead of watching TV in the clubhouse, what does that say about the manager? What does it say about the team leaders? Anderson seems to be on the way out in typical fashion. I love the White Sox, but its amazing to me the high percentage of players that leave with bad feelings. For a while almost every player that left was pissed off at the organization, including the current manager. Then they finally got rid of a decent player who said nothing, Carlos Lee. The Sox were flabbergasted. They had to point out what a horrible LF he was although they would tell him he was good to make him happy, and had to let everyone know he slides into second like a pussy.

Great post.

 

I completely forgot about how Ozzie said Brian's offense didn't matter and it was all about his defense.

[SkokieSox]

He never said he wanted personal phone calls from the GM. He said, "But I have to assume when a guy is somewhat in a team's plans and gets hurt, and his season is over, I would assume someone in the organization, front office-wise, would check up on you and give you a rundown for what their plans are for you." Considering the part in bold, I took it as, 'Look, I know you don't want me here.' He also hints at that in saying, "If someone wants to come and tell me something, I can handle it. If I can handle hitting .225 in the big leagues, I can handle getting news that's not too great about me."

 

As for the rest, he's asking how it will benefit him, personally. ("It would be nice to talk to someone and find out why I'm going there and as to how it will benefit me.") That's not asking for "red carpet treatment". He's saying he doesn't know what his incentive is to go to winter ball. Honestly, I don't think he has any.

 

If he doesn't want a personal phone call, what in the hell is he talking about? His agent already talked with the Sox, and his agent talked with him. He's made it clear that isn't goos enough for him. Maybe a personalized note would do the trick, but who knows? (SARCASM - just so everyone is clear) If he has no incentive to go to winter ball, then it is he who has given up on the organization, not the other way around. If he doesn't go, he does not prove he's healthy and he does not prove he has improved and is ready to be in the majors again. I'd say after what he's shown to date, he has a whole lot to prove. That's the benefit, here's a shot for him to prove it.

 

He says he doesn't want to be treated like a 6 year old, but it sounds like that's exactly how he wants to be treated. He should understand what's going on, and dig deep down to get motivated to show what he has. If he doesn't, why would anyone hand him a starting job?

[Dick Allen]

The other ironic thing about Anderson's "bad attitude" about winter ball, is the guy who is apparently getting a much better shot, Jerry Owens, walked away from Joey Cora's winter ball team a couple of years ago.

[29andPoplar]

Oh puh-lease, give me a f***ing break with this useless hyperbole. Those who defend Anderson have never made him out to be a saint. Yes, he's a young ballplayer with an apparent attitude problem, God forbid! I'm sure that's a first, right? But instead of trying to work through that, this organization screwed things up and compounded the mistake by bringing in Erstad who (predictably) got hurt.

 

And we sit here today not knowing whether is an BA attitude problem child who can play the game at least as an average CFer (see his second half of 2006) or if he's just an attitude problem who sucks. Nope, instead we brought in Darin Erstad, the guy whose balls were massaged by every f***ing person within the organization, every f***ing White Sox beat writer in the city, and he -- quite predictably, might I add -- not only sucked, but got hurt.

 

But at least he did a good job of cheerleading and grinding in the clubhouse, right? I guess the Sox see that as money well spent.

 

Hey CWS,

 

You might want to check your own post for useless hyperbole.

 

I noticed this: "Nope, instead we brought in Darin Erstad, the guy whose balls were massaged by every f-ing person within the organization .... "

 

Anderson isn't that good. There's a reason why he hasn't broken through, and despite what's claimed on this site, it has absolutely zero to do with bias or "ball massaging".

 

If you think otherwise, that's fine by me, and we will agree to disagree.

 

 

[29andPoplar]

The other ironic thing about Anderson's "bad attitude" about winter ball, is the guy who is apparently getting a much better shot, Jerry Owens, walked away from Joey Cora's winter ball team a couple of years ago.

 

And then turned around and worked his behind off, interestingly enough with no pity parties.

[fathom]

Hey CWS,

 

You might want to check your own post for useless hyperbole.

 

I noticed this: "Nope, instead we brought in Darin Erstad, the guy whose balls were massaged by every f-ing person within the organization .... "

 

Anderson isn't that good. There's a reason why he hasn't broken through, and despite what's claimed on this site, it has absolutely zero to do with bias or "ball massaging".

 

If you think otherwise, that's fine by me, and we will agree to disagree.

 

I don't think Anderson is very good. He looks like a pitcher at the plate with his 3-level swing. However, I don't think we handled his development very well. The problem is it's too late for him to have a future with the Sox, and we're going to get nothing for him when he's dealt this offseason. Luckily, we were able to get some potential MLB quality players when we dealt McCarthy. I fully expect Sweeney to become the next overrated Sox prospect that falls out of favor with the organization.

[29andPoplar]

. One thing to keep in mind with Brian Anderson is this was probably the first time he's ever failed at baseball. He most likely has always been a star and treated like royalty. Especially in basketball, its amazing how 7th and 8th grade kids are put on a shrine now. Then something goes wrong and they really don't know how to handle it. I think KW understands. He was a guy who was highly regarded, came in had a nice year as a 22 or 23 year old, stardom was predicted and he then couldn't hit. Up until that point, I really doubt KW had many failings in athletics in his life. I really don't think its as much an attitude problem as it is confusion and frustration as to why everything just hasn't worked out.

 

Completely agree with this by the way. The issue continues to be working through that frustration and channeling it the right way.

[29andPoplar]

However, I don't think we handled his development very well.

 

Agree. He needs more "kid glove" handling than most.

[fathom]

Agree. He needs more "kid glove" handling than most.

 

You probably have a less bias view of this than I do. What's your opinion on the way Ozzie is handling the maturity of the young players on and off the field? It seems like he's been quick to give up on a few players (when I say quick, I mean in months, not days). When he does get down on these guys, there's really no coming back. It seems like Anderson, Masset, and Aardsma fall into this category. If we're going to try and get younger, I just hope our manager/GM have more patience than they've shown.

[29andPoplar]

You probably have a less bias view of this than I do. What's your opinion on the way Ozzie is handling the maturity of the young players on and off the field? It seems like he's been quick to give up on a few players (when I say quick, I mean in months, not days). When he does get down on these guys, there's really no coming back. It seems like Anderson, Masset, and Aardsma fall into this category. If we're going to try and get younger, I just hope our manager/GM have more patience than they've shown.

 

I think Guillen has a strong sense, almost an absolute sense, of a players intangibles. Of course, no one is ever 100% judging a players intangibles.

 

Let's take Owens as an example. When they sent him down, Guillen was quoted to the effect of "this guy isn't sure he belongs in the big leagues". Something like that. What he's trying to say, I believe, is he doesn't have confidence, killer instinct, warrior mentality. However you want to phrase it. Guillen feels a player needs to be 100% ready to compete, especially a young player who hasn't proven anything. Given their goal to win, he has less patience with these young players than say, a manager in Pittsburgh might.

 

To Owens credit, he took what they told him to heart and came back and did better. He may or may not be in their long term plans but he picked himself up by the bootstraps and did better. I admire Owens for that and I believe Guillen does as well.

 

If Guillen had his way, some of those kids wouldn't have sniffed the big leagues, not because he doesn't like young players but because all the injuries made these guys have to play. Their talent evaluators overestimated talent and confidence of several guys. Masset, MacDougal, Aardsma were all overestimated in one way or the other. All three of them internalize way way too much. Not good. These are things that should've been known before they were acquired.

 

I believe Guillen gives veterans a bit too much rope. I also believe some of that philosophy will change because it bit Guillen and the team in the behind in 2007.

 

Lastly, I believe the White Sox organization absolutely must insist that young players are fundamentally sound and ready to contribute before they hit the big leagues.

[CWSGuy406]

You might want to check your own post for useless hyperbole.

 

I noticed this: "Nope, instead we brought in Darin Erstad, the guy whose balls were massaged by every f-ing person within the organization .... "

 

Really? It's hyperbole? When the Sox signed Erstad, I know I saw articles by Phil Rogers, Mark Gonzalez, Scott Merkin etc etc saying the same damn thing. "He played football, he's a winner, he's a great veteran presence." Apparently I was just imagining that, though. Apparently the Erstad signing wasn't as how I have it pegged

 

(That's sarcasm).

 

The rest of your post has nothing to do with what I said. I was debating the person -- you, maybe? -- who said Anderson didn't get jerked around. He did, he got jerked around in 2006 and I'd argue that it cost us a ballgame or two.

 

Yeah, you're probably right that Anderson won't turn out to be anything better than a 4th outfielder but that doesn't mean he was handled correctly. Far from it.

Edited November 4, 2007 by CWSGuy406

[Chisoxfn]

Really? It's hyperbole? When the Sox signed Erstad, I think I saw articles by Phil Rogers, Mark Gonzalez, Scott Merkin etc etc saying the same damn thing. "He played football, he's a winner, he's a great veteran presence." Apparently I was just imagining that, though. Apparently the Erstad signing wasn't as how I have it pegged

 

(That's sarcasm).

 

The rest of your post has nothing to do with what I said. I was debating the person -- you, maybe? -- who said Anderson didn't get jerked around. He did, he got jerked around in 2006 and I'd argue that it cost us a ballgame or two.

 

Yeah, you're probably right that Anderson won't turn out to be anything better than a 4th outfielder but that doesn't mean he was handled correctly. Far from it.

For what it is worth I've never ever heard anyone ever say a bad thing about Darin Erstad. He's not a starter by all means anymore but he is a good baseball player (and I say that not meaning he's an all star but with the point that he knows how to play the game). He handles himself like a complete pro and just meshes with everyone out there.

 

All you had to do was listen to anyone in the Angels organization who uttered how much Erstad was going to help the Sox (I think I recall Garret Anderson saying multiple times over the past few years about how important Erstad always was to the Angels and than this past season I remember him saying how much Erstad would help the Sox if he was near healthy). The guy is as respected a pro as there is in the game so while you don't like him and he doesn't have the best stats the Sox aren't the only org to like the intangibles of Erstad.

[jackie hayes]

If he doesn't want a personal phone call, what in the hell is he talking about? His agent already talked with the Sox, and his agent talked with him. He's made it clear that isn't goos enough for him. Maybe a personalized note would do the trick, but who knows? (SARCASM - just so everyone is clear) If he has no incentive to go to winter ball, then it is he who has given up on the organization, not the other way around. If he doesn't go, he does not prove he's healthy and he does not prove he has improved and is ready to be in the majors again. I'd say after what he's shown to date, he has a whole lot to prove. That's the benefit, here's a shot for him to prove it.

 

He says he doesn't want to be treated like a 6 year old, but it sounds like that's exactly how he wants to be treated. He should understand what's going on, and dig deep down to get motivated to show what he has. If he doesn't, why would anyone hand him a starting job?

You said from the GM. He never asked for that. I get tired of all the exaggerations.

 

If there's one thing I feel pretty sure about, it's that they've both given up on each other. Given what happened in st, I believe the Sox gave up on him first. But at this point, it really doesn't matter.

 

As for what he should "prove" -- if he knows he's not healthy, then he knows he'll perform badly. Why would you try to "prove" you can swing a bat when your wrist isn't right? It's not like he can merely "dig deep down" and will himself to perfect health. (Not everybody is as gifted as Darin Erstad.)

 

I missed the part where he asked to be handed a starting job. Mind showing me that quote? Or are you referring to his refusal to compete for the job this past st?

 

It's silly, the amount of bile spent on some players. Everyone wants him out, let's just get it over with.

[29andPoplar]

The rest of your post has nothing to do with what I said. I was debating the person -- you, maybe? -- who said Anderson didn't get jerked around. He did, he got jerked around in 2006 and I'd argue that it cost us a ballgame or two.

 

The whole point of your post was how much BA got jerked around and how bad a move it was to plug in Erstad. Chisoxfn does a good job of articulating the Erstad thing so no need for me to belabor it.

 

As for Brian. Perform like a big leaguer on and off the field and you get to play. Don't, and you won't. I suppose that statement can be argued all night long with but, but, but. It really sums it up though.

 

I am not an advocate for just giving this guy away. He needs to get healthy and come in with a clean slate in terms of his attitude and from the White Sox perspective, expectations (they shouldn't have any expectations for him). Let him play in Charlotte and see where it goes, hopefully his value goes up.

 

[SkokieSox]

You said from the GM. He never asked for that. I get tired of all the exaggerations.

 

If there's one thing I feel pretty sure about, it's that they've both given up on each other. Given what happened in st, I believe the Sox gave up on him first. But at this point, it really doesn't matter.

 

As for what he should "prove" -- if he knows he's not healthy, then he knows he'll perform badly. Why would you try to "prove" you can swing a bat when your wrist isn't right? It's not like he can merely "dig deep down" and will himself to perfect health. (Not everybody is as gifted as Darin Erstad.)

 

I missed the part where he asked to be handed a starting job. Mind showing me that quote? Or are you referring to his refusal to compete for the job this past st?

 

It's silly, the amount of bile spent on some players. Everyone wants him out, let's just get it over with.

 

You're completely missing the point - and he mentioned front office personnel. Regardless, you're harping on bs, when the real issue his attitude. If he's not healthy, then don't play. But then don't sit there and whine about being asked to go, because it wasn't a Sox official telling you directly. And if he isn't healthy to play, and he isn't asked to be handed the starting job, what in the hell does he want? He wants a Sox offical to tell him that he's not healthy, hasn't earned to be called up, and because of it, he's not going to start in 08? That's what this whining is about?

[jackie hayes]

You're completely missing the point - and he mentioned front office personnel. Regardless, you're harping on bs, when the real issue his attitude. If he's not healthy, then don't play. But then don't sit there and whine about being asked to go, because it wasn't a Sox official telling you directly. And if he isn't healthy to play, and he isn't asked to be handed the starting job, what in the hell does he want? He wants a Sox offical to tell him that he's not healthy, hasn't earned to be called up, and because of it, he's not going to start in 08? That's what this whining is about?

No, I'm not completely missing the point. I already explained to you how I look at the quotes, go back and look at it if you want. What does he want? I think he just wants out. But then, I'm not the mindreader you are.

 

You think he's being a prima donna, fine. Go ahead.

 

Please, Kenny, just trade him already. So we can get the week of BA-hate out of the way and move on to the innate championshipness of David Eckstein.

[CWSGuy406]

The whole point of your post was how much BA got jerked around and how bad a move it was to plug in Erstad. Chisoxfn does a good job of articulating the Erstad thing so no need for me to belabor it.

 

And I answered that. Bringing in Erstad was as useless a move then as it is right now. Now we're stuck with our thumbs up our butt (to put it bluntly), still not knowing what kind of player Anderson is. What I mean by that is -- if he repeats the second half of 2006, you don't have to worry about finding a CFer this winter. If he sucks -- well, you know he's probably not going to make it.

 

Instead, we have a player who hasn't even had a full season's worth of at-bats at the major league level, and we're forced to cut bait with him when his value is at his lowest. So not only was he jerked around in 2006 -- which you haven't responded to so I'll take that as meaning you agree that I'm right -- but they've effectively killed his trade value.

[SkokieSox]

No, I'm not completely missing the point. I already explained to you how I look at the quotes, go back and look at it if you want. What does he want? I think he just wants out. But then, I'm not the mindreader you are.

 

You think he's being a prima donna, fine. Go ahead.

 

Please, Kenny, just trade him already. So we can get the week of BA-hate out of the way and move on to the innate championshipness of David Eckstein.

 

If he wants out, that's fine. He'll have an easier time making it happen for himself by getting healthy and showing he can play. Otherwise his value is too low for the Sox to trade. As of now, he's a good insurance policy in case of an injury.

 

I'm not a mind reader, just observant...