Chombi Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 As you probably saw the Cubs dealt Craig Monroe to the Twinkies for a player to be named later. http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.j...sp&c_id=chc They are also in on Crawford apparently....I heard it on ESPN 1000 from Levine and mlbtr confirms it. A trusted reader dropped me a line regarding a Bruce Levine appearance on ESPN Radio 1000. Remember, Levine was the guy who scooped the Jacque Jones trade. Levine reported today that the Cubs are putting together a package of young talent in an attempt to acquire the Rays' Carl Crawford. That would leave the Cubs with a speedy, athletic outfield of Alfonso Soriano, Felix Pie, and Crawford. The emailer says today's report did not mention names. Ronny Cedeno would certainly be a useful addition for the Rays, and you'd have to expect some premium pitching heading over as well. I'm thinking Rich Hill, Carlos Marmol, or both. The problem with these proposed blockbuster deals is they often open up new holes. Thoughts? My favorite part about it is that for whatever reason they assume that the D-Rays want Cedeno...Hill and Marmol I understand, but why Cedeno. IMO they have one of the best SS in the minors. Reid Brignac. They also have Joel Guzman, who has apparently been shifted to potentially an OF/SS spot. Still a young kid and very talented. Either way, he is still an option at SS for the D-Rays. On their team already...They have Zobrist up and don't play Upton their but he was a SS.... So why in the world would they want another one...And why would they not require Soto, or Pie in the deal? Just obnoxious if it goes through w/o one of those two. If we had tried to get Crawford and failed, meanwhile they deal him for this package, I'd be very sickened by our player's "value" in the eyes of other teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 I'd say Hill, Soto and Marmol is a fair deal for both sides, especially if Soto is half as good as he was last season. That would give the D-Rays an average or slightly better than average pitcher starting pitcher, a stud in the bullpen and an average (better if last year was for real) catcher. I just don't think the Sox match up well with Tampa Bay. It seems to me that they want young -- but not guys who are still prospects -- pitching. The closest we can come to topping their offer would be something like Danks, Jenks and one more piece. Danks doesn't figure to be anywhere near as good as Hill next season and I'd say Jenks and Marmol are a wash (more cheap years for Marmol). The spots where the D-Rays appear to be weak are C and pitching, and we have zero catchers above A-ball who would have any value to Tampa. Tampa's going to be interesting to watch next year. If they can shore up that defense a little bit, they got a chance at being a 75-81 win team. Their top two in the rotation is solid and I figure Sonnanstine should be a fine back-end guy. They need some good (young) relief and a middle-of-the-rotation innings eater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chombi Posted November 14, 2007 Author Share Posted November 14, 2007 Exactly...I don't see how a Soto/Pie isn't in this deal insteado f Cedeno....Cedeno just seems to be useless to me for that ballclub. Unless they plan on dealing Brignac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 If they want a lefty curveballer on the Cubs, you go after Marshall. Hill is vastly overrated and I would put money on it that he will have an ERA above 4.5. Also, if I'm the "Rays", I'd take a flier on Prior... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Also, I wonder... do the cubs finally plan on using Murton or finally trade him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Levine is not even close on value for Crawford in that scenario. The twins should have waited for the cubs to outright Monroe, they could have had him without dealing a player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 QUOTE(BearSox @ Nov 13, 2007 -> 04:31 PM) Also, if I'm the "Rays", I'd take a flier on Prior... For Prior to be involved in this deal, the Cubs would have to actually offer him arb, which would guarantee him several million dollars next year. He could well be signed for less than that on the open market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chombi Posted November 14, 2007 Author Share Posted November 14, 2007 (edited) The Rays (god it's a bad name) aren't making this selection yet...Levine reported it as if the Cubs asked if he was available and got the nod. This deal is what their "Package" is going to be from an offer standpoint. Hopefully the Rays laugh and go...we got Kazmir for Victor Zambrano. I thought their GM/Owner were supposed to be tough to deal with ever since that deal. Accepting an "overrated" Hill, Cedeno and Marmol wouldn't fit that profile. If I were them I'd get Marmol, Soto or Colvin, Hill or Marshall, and even push for a guy like Gallager/Veal. If they truly have let that Kazmir deal go to their head, how can you not demand a package that is massive. I don't think that one I suggested is realistic but it should be the counter-offer and work from there. You never know, they are so desperate that maybe the Cubs give in. Edited November 14, 2007 by Chombi and the Fungi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 13, 2007 -> 06:35 PM) For Prior to be involved in this deal, the Cubs would have to actually offer him arb, which would guarantee him several million dollars next year. He could well be signed for less than that on the open market. still, I'd take a chance on him and get him for nothing via free agency. I would not mind it at all if the White Sox sign him in the offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 QUOTE(Chombi and the Fungi @ Nov 13, 2007 -> 06:46 PM) The Rays (god it's a bad name) aren't making this selection yet...Levine reported it as if the Cubs asked if he was available and got the nod. This deal is what their "Package" is going to be from an offer standpoint. Hopefully the Rays laugh and go...we got Kazmir for Victor Zambrano. I thought their GM/Owner were supposed to be tough to deal with ever since that deal. Accepting an overrated Hill, Cedeno and Marmol wouldn't fit that profile. If I were them I'd get Marmol, Soto or Colvin, Hill or Marshall, and even push for a guy like Gallager/Veal. If they truly have let that Kazmir deal go to their head, how can you not demand a package that is massive. I don't think that one I suggested is realistic but it should be the counter-offer and work from there. You never know, they are so desperate that maybe the Cubs give in. If I'm the "Rays", I don't trade Crawford to the Cubs for anything less then Marmol, Soto/Pie, and Hill/Marshall, and probably another minor player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 QUOTE(BearSox @ Nov 14, 2007 -> 12:31 AM) If they want a lefty curveballer on the Cubs, you go after Marshall. Hill is vastly overrated and I would put money on it that he will have an ERA above 4.5. WTF? How is Marshall the guy to go after? The same Sean Marshall who barely holds 1.5-to-1 K/BB ratio? No -- the starter who averages about one K/IP is the guy who's overrated. Riiiight... Please send me some of that ganja you appear to be smoking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chombi Posted November 14, 2007 Author Share Posted November 14, 2007 If I'm the "Rays", I don't trade Crawford to the Cubs for anything less then Marmol, Soto/Pie, and Hill/Marshall, and probably another minor player. Agreed. I think you could even get a low level top prospect in that deal. Seriously, this team is desperate and coming off a playoff birth/embarressment, I don't put it passed them to go all in to get what they desire. As an opposing gm, I wouldn't talk any deal with them for a star player on my team w/o that in the back of my mind. I just wouldn't. IMO this deal could be monumental...Either it'll be a joke and somehow they get Crawford for what doesnt seem like enough, or they make one of the most lopsided deals ever and hand over a ton of high-quality talent. I am hoping for the ladder. I would also love to take a risk on Prior...It's in our best interest b/c you know just simply out of Cub Karma he would win a Cy Young for us and regain his "best stuff in baseball" while changing his motion and saving his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 14, 2007 -> 01:02 AM) WTF? How is Marshall the guy to go after? The same Sean Marshall who barely holds 1.5-to-1 K/BB ratio? No -- the starter who averages about one K/IP is the guy who's overrated. Riiiight... Please send me some of that ganja you appear to be smoking. The same Sean Marshall that couldn't reach 85 mph during the 2nd half of the season? Rich Hill has a ton of trade value, but Tampa really should try to get Hill, Soto, and Marmol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 13, 2007 -> 05:18 PM) The same Sean Marshall that couldn't reach 85 mph during the 2nd half of the season? Rich Hill has a ton of trade value, but Tampa really should try to get Hill, Soto, and Marmol. And, given that they don't need to trade Crawford for what, 3 years...there's no reason to do that deal without getting at least those 3 guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 QUOTE(BearSox @ Nov 13, 2007 -> 06:31 PM) Hill is vastly overrated i agree. since he barely has any big league experience people dont know/realize that hes actually not young, hes 27-28 yrs old. "cubs in on crawford" the cubs r linked to ever damn player, hunter, arod, crawford.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Seriously, Hill, Marmol, and Soto/Pie looks like a really good trade for both teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Nov 14, 2007 -> 01:03 PM) Seriously, Hill, Marmol, and Soto/Pie looks like a really good trade for both teams. Yeah it does actually. The thing is here, would the Cubs be better off is signing Fukedome instead of trading for Crawford. My thinking is, they could do both, but the Cubs would have to trade Pie instead of Soto, and then you would have an OF of Soriano, Crawford and Fukedome. And Tampa also have Dioner Navarro at C, albeit, he hasn't really produced offensively yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Nov 14, 2007 -> 03:03 AM) Yeah it does actually. The thing is here, would the Cubs be better off is signing Fukedome instead of trading for Crawford. My thinking is, they could do both, but the Cubs would have to trade Pie instead of Soto, and then you would have an OF of Soriano, Crawford and Fukedome. And Tampa also have Dioner Navarro at C, albeit, he hasn't really produced offensively yet. Absolutely...those are 3 integral players for the Cubs, and it would be way too much to get Crawford, who will be a FA again before you know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 13, 2007 -> 07:06 PM) Absolutely...those are 3 integral players for the Cubs, and it would be way too much to get Crawford, who will be a FA again before you know it. But...there really is no reason at all for Tampa to make that deal without getting those 3 players back. They can certainly hold out for prospects from other teams if they want to make that deal, and shoot for a #1 type starting pitcher (which is not coming back in any deal with the Cubs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 14, 2007 -> 02:06 PM) Absolutely...those are 3 integral players for the Cubs, and it would be way too much to get Crawford, who will be a FA again before you know it. Crawford's signed for 3 years though isn't he, so it's not like you're trading for a Jon Garland here, who's going to hit the market next off-season. Still signing Fukedome makes the most sense for the Cubs. Trading for Crawford's probably a backup plan I would imagine, if that signing doesn't eventuate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 13, 2007 -> 07:02 PM) WTF? How is Marshall the guy to go after? The same Sean Marshall who barely holds 1.5-to-1 K/BB ratio? No -- the starter who averages about one K/IP is the guy who's overrated. Riiiight... Please send me some of that ganja you appear to be smoking. I'm just playing scout, and from the small samples I have seen of Hill and Marshall, I would prefer Marshall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 QUOTE(BearSox @ Nov 14, 2007 -> 04:48 AM) I'm just playing scout, and from the small samples I have seen of Hill and Marshall, I would prefer Marshall. Hill's value >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Marshall's value Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sircaffey Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 13, 2007 -> 10:51 PM) Hill's value >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Marshall's value That's actually probably pretty close to the truth when it come to the number of ">". Hill is a definite no-brainer over Marshall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sircaffey Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 A 1-2 of Crawford and Soriano is awfully sexy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 13, 2007 -> 10:51 PM) Hill's value >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Marshall's value I can't argue that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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