I updated the thread and if anyone is interested you can go to the first page and see a listing of all the players listed in the report. Let me know if there are any names that need to be added/removed.

I updated the thread and if anyone is interested you can go to the first page and see a listing of all the players listed in the report. Let me know if there are any names that need to be added/removed.

Remove Sammy Hagar.

NEVER trust wikipedia on breaking stories. They have to calm down for a few days to limit junk posts.

I'm sure it's been said before in this thread but...JIM PARQUE???

 

JIM PARQUE???

 

Seriously???

Brian McNamee will be targeted for character assassination since he's only associated with two names, and two big names at that.

Good luck with that happening. Everyone close to the organization, including people in the media, know just how tight mcNamee was with Roger and everyone knows how tight Pettite and Roger are. The stuff in there is pretty damn concrete if you ask me and I'm glad to see Roger finally paying the price.

 

He deserves as much s*** as Barry has gotten over the years. In fact he deserves it times 10 since Barry has had to put up with about 6 years of it by now (deservingly so for the most part). Barry Bonds isn't any different than Rocket....whooo.

 

I still would pay money to see either of them play the game at there prime though

frank thomas's odds of being elected to the hall of fame just went up alot imo....

Remove Sammy Hagar.

NEVER trust wikipedia on breaking stories. They have to calm down for a few days to limit junk posts.

Fixed. I was looking there and another spot and hte list for the most part looked consistent and it was in nice easy to copy format.

frank thomas's odds of being elected to the hall of fame just went up alot imo....

I think he was going in anyway, but yeah, I'd say his shot at first ballot went up.

 

frank thomas's odds of being elected to the hall of fame just went up alot imo....

He should be first ballot. It is pretty evident that practically any player that actually had better offensive seasons in the past 5-10 years were using performance enhancing substances.

 

I've been known to rip Frank but he deserves a lot of love for being an ethical ball player and one of the most amazing offensive players to ever play the game (I'm going to start saying that a lot because Thomas' accomplishments were really lessened by the results of the steroid driven players).

I think he was going in anyway, but yeah, I'd say his shot at first ballot went up.

Well he's getting no credit in this article...that's for sure

 

"Giambi, under threat of discipline from Selig, was the only current player known to have cooperated with the Mitchell investigation."

 

Also, this same thing was just repeated by Boers

Edited December 13, 200718 yr by Controlled Chaos

QUOTE(Athomeboy_2000 @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 11:48 AM) *

It says he was OFFERED them and saw them used, no direct evidence that he used them."

 

He said that one of the players brought the

steroids to the apartment but was afraid of needles and therefore asked the second player to

administer the shot.

That sounds like he was asking someone else to inject him.

 

 

Yes, to get it straight on Karchner. Nothing says that he used them. To the contrary, he witnessed 2 teammates in their apartment (the 3 lived together) shooting 'roids. He also says that teammate(s) offered steroids to him (Karchner) but he never accepted them. He does not name the players who he witnessed.

He should be first ballot. It is pretty evident that practically any player that actually had better offensive seasons in the past 5-10 years were using performance enhancing substances.

 

I've been known to rip Frank but he deserves a lot of love for being an ethical ball player and one of the most amazing offensive players to ever play the game (I'm going to start saying that a lot because Thomas' accomplishments were really lessened by the results of the steroid driven players).

 

Wasn't Frank the one who spearheaded the effort a few years ago where the Sox refused to take the tests to guarantee the 5% level for testing?

 

He may have been a little salty at times, but he's still arguably the best pure hitter to play for the White Sox, ever.

It will be interesting to see if there is a reaction to Frank Thomas from this. I would hope he would be viewed as a true clean player that put up great numbers. Hopefully he is rewarded for an honest opinion and Bud gives him the 2000 MVP and he becomes a first ballot HOF member.

 

Anyone find it odd that the White Sox are not as outspoken about the issue now as they were a few years back. I guess Frank lead that charge.

 

Think he could have been a better hitter than Bonds if he juiced?

Yes, to get it straight on Karchner. Nothing says that he used them. To the contrary, he witnessed 2 teammates in their apartment (the 3 lived together) shooting 'roids. He also says that teammate(s) offered steroids to him (Karchner) but he never accepted them. He does not name the players who he witnessed.

How is it so impossible to find out what teammates were living with Karchner at the time?

Good luck with that happening. Everyone close to the organization, including people in the media, know just how tight mcNamee was with Roger and everyone knows how tight Pettite and Roger are. The stuff in there is pretty damn concrete if you ask me and I'm glad to see Roger finally paying the price.

 

He deserves as much s*** as Barry has gotten over the years. In fact he deserves it times 10 since Barry has had to put up with about 6 years of it by now (deservingly so for the most part). Barry Bonds isn't any different than Rocket....whooo.

 

I still would pay money to see either of them play the game at there prime though

Not sure if you meant the stuff on both, but I think the stuff on Pettitte only really says that McNamee knows he used HGH before 2003, when MLB banned it. Not as strong of a claim as everything about Clemens.

It will be interesting to see if there is a reaction to Frank Thomas from this. I would hope he would be viewed as a true clean player that put up great numbers. Hopefully he is rewarded for an honest opinion and Bud gives him the 2000 MVP and he becomes a first ballot HOF member.

 

Anyone find it odd that the White Sox are not as outspoken about the issue now as they were a few years back. I guess Frank lead that charge.

Well, they haven't really needed to have they, once Congress and Selig actually got on the subject?

frank thomas's odds of being elected to the hall of fame just went up alot imo....

 

When Frank retires, his HOF vote should be unanimous for not only playing clean but for also speaking out against it

Since Sammy Sosa isn't on the list does this mean he's clean. Or does that apply only to those who played for the White Sox when they won it all?

Edited December 13, 200718 yr by Dick Allen

Since Sammy Sosa isn't on the list does this mean he's clean. Or does that apply only to those who played for the White Sox when they won it all?

This clearly doesn't mean that either Sosa, the 05 White Sox, or anyone else not named was clean. In fact, it alleges that there were other people who were using who's names they couldn't get. But it is still a relief at some level that a lot of the guys from the recent world series teams haven't been connected with the networks that have already been broken up.

Edited December 13, 200718 yr by Balta1701

Wow. Just took a moment to look at Roger Clemens's 1998 stats, which is the year that the Mitchell Report alleges he started using. The Splits are freaking remarkable.

 

I Split G GS GF W L S CG SHO IP ERA H R ER HR BB IBB SO HBP

+-+------------+---+--+--+--+--+--+--+---+-----+------+---+---+---+--+---+---+---+---+

April/Mar. 5 5 0 2 3 0 0 0 27.1 3.62 17 14 11 0 17 0 24 1

May 6 6 0 3 3 0 0 0 42 3.43 32 19 16 3 21 0 45 2

June 6 6 0 4 0 0 2 0 42.1 4.04 42 20 19 4 14 0 44 1

July 5 5 0 4 0 0 0 0 36.1 1.73 25 7 7 1 13 0 35 1

August 6 6 0 4 0 0 3 3 50 0.90 25 7 5 0 10 0 68 0

Sept./Oct. 5 5 0 3 0 0 0 0 36.2 2.70 28 11 11 3 13 0 55 2

Wow. Just took a moment to look at Roger Clemens's 1998 stats, which is the year that the Mitchell Report alleges he started using. The Splits are freaking remarkable.

People still b**** about the White Sox not signing him in 1997. His last 4 seasons in Boston he was 40-39. That guy was a good pitcher but not a HOFer at that point. He's a fake.

According to ESPN, Brian Roberts has been smeared and the allegations are hearsay. Ok.

This whole thing is a fluff piece IMHO that will not be used to do anything other then an MLB CYA with Congress and a tool to try and get as much testing through the MLBPA as possible.

This whole thing is a fluff piece IMHO that will not be used to do anything other then an MLB CYA with Congress and a tool to try and get as much testing through the MLBPA as possible.

If the end result is stronger testing, then it was a success.

 

This clearly doesn't mean that either Sosa, the 05 White Sox, or anyone else not named was clean. In fact, it alleges that there were other people who were using who's names they couldn't get. But it is still a relief at some level that a lot of the guys from the recent world series teams haven't been connected with the networks that have already been broken up.

 

first 16 starts - 102.2 IP, 3.77 ERA, 8-6

last 17 starts - 132 IP, 1.77 ERA, 12-0

 

that's ridiculous

Wasn't Frank the one who spearheaded the effort a few years ago where the Sox refused to take the tests to guarantee the 5% level for testing?

 

He may have been a little salty at times, but he's still arguably the best pure hitter to play for the White Sox, ever.

 

Here's a NYT article from 2003 on that: link

 

It's pretty interesting reading. Nice quote from Giambi calling the Sox stupid.

 

In retrospect, it's sort of surprising this failed insurrection wasn't more widely reported......