The Democrat Thread

[StrangeSox]

No, I don't see how it would be viewed as disrespectful unless you're a bigot who views all billion+ adherents of a religion in the light of the extremists. Muslims died in the WTC, too.

 

Also, glad to see you backpedalling from your "on the very spot" claim and avoiding, like everyone else, the "how far is far enough?" question.

 

All Catholic Churches within 2 blocks of parks, playgrounds, schools, public pools or any place frequented by children should be demolished. No new churches should be allowed near them. Don't you see how allowing the Catholic priests near children is a bit disrespectful to all of the kids they've raped? Really? Just a little?

Edited September 9, 2010 by StrangeSox

[Jenksismyhero]

You do realize that Christians have killed in the name of their "God" before too, does that mean we should restrict their ability to worship freely for what a few crazy people did (and really, religion was an outclause for them, just like how some Christians who were murderers in the past did, they used "God" as their excuse for their f***ed up actions).

 

And whose to say that the mosque is built to be a common place for free religion and understanding, much like a monument would be there to honor those who had fallen due to the horror of the past, but iis marking the progress (yes I know, that dreaded word) of the people and how we have remembered and learned from the situation.

 

That's all well and good but i'm arguing against this idea that people who don't like it are automatically racist (er, bigoted, right SS?) I'm not denying that they have the right to build the church, or that if people were welcoming of the idea that it would show "progress," but that's not reality. Enough people were pissed off about it. It wasn't welcome with open arms, there was clear opposition to it, and IMO that opposition is justified. It's still an open wound for a lot of people. And I can see it as being a slight to New Yorkers to want to open the mosque there (and to make a big stink of it as they have).

[Jenksismyhero]

No, I don't see how it would be viewed as disrespectful unless you're a bigot who views all billion+ adherents of a religion in the light of the extremists. Muslims died in the WTC, too.

 

Also, glad to see you backpedalling from your "on the very spot" claim and avoiding, like everyone else, the "how far is far enough?" question.

 

Because you've been harping on this stupid f***ing point for weeks. It does not matter. Just like saying how many drink is too much? You f***ing know. Is that art or is that porn? You just f***ing know. 2 blocks from the worst attack on Americal soil is enough for me. I dunno what the border is, but I know this isn't it.

 

[bigruss]

Seriously, am I the only one that sees why the people of New York wouldn't want this? Building a mosque (not a community center. It's a community center as much as a catholic church is a community center. Do you really think catholics or jews or athiests will be welcome with open arms?) near ground zero (which as I stated above, is not some 10 foot square plot of land, but encompassed practically all of lower manhattan) isn't slightly disrespectful to the worst attack on american soil? Just a little? Really?

Isnt it slightly disrespectful to the First Amendment denying US Citizens the right to worship on private property?

 

I do understand how people who were directly effected by 9/11 would be upset by this, because it would be much more personal and emotional (not saying it isnt for other people, but its a whole new level for those who lost someone close to them on that day).

 

That said, I really wish these people would realize that in order to prevent these type of events we cannot continue with the current relations we have. How we change that Im not sure, but I do know that very few are happy with where we are at currently.

[StrangeSox]

You haven't actually made a case for why it's justified, just asserted that over and over and over.

 

And, factually, you're wrong again. This was a non-issue until some decided to make it a political issue.

[StrangeSox]

Because you've been harping on this stupid f***ing point for weeks.

 

Because you can't answer it. You can't actually justify the hatred, just assert that it is justified. You're a lawyer, you should know that that s*** doesn't pass for a logical argument.

 

It does not matter.

 

Sure it does. It's the entire point for your side.

 

Just like saying how many drink is too much? You f***ing know.

 

Hilariously bad example. We have legal limits.

 

Is that art or is that porn? You just f***ing know. 2 blocks from the worst attack on Americal soil is enough for me. I dunno what the border is, but I know this isn't it.

 

You haven't actually provided, you know, justification for that position.

[Soxbadger]

I understand why people are against it. I just believe that America is about religious freedom, and they all deserve the same respect.

 

 

[Balta1701]

I still don't understand why people have an issue with this. 2 blocks was well within the zone of damage/destruction caused by 9/11. You state this as though the site is some tiny 10 foot by 10 foot plot of land.

And you state this as though it's somewhere other than New York City, where 2 blocks of land covers enough space for tens of thousands of people to live and work.

[NorthSideSox72]

Jenks, FYI, it is indeed a community center, complete with swimming pool, etc. Further, it has interfaith chapels built in as well.

 

[StrangeSox]

ohyeahsurebutdoyoureallythinktheywon'tjustkillthejooswhocome?!!!?!?!

[bigruss]

From what I can tell, the arguments boil down to:

 

Constitution vs. Emotional Uprise

 

Am I wrong? Am I missing something on either side?

Edited September 9, 2010 by bigruss22

[Balta1701]

Am I wrong? Am I missing something on either side?

I think there's plenty of reason to be emotionally invested on the pro-side also, if you believe that it'd be a good thing, consistent with the best of American values, to have Muslims freely practicing their religion in that city.

 

That emotion, of course, might be described as "Pride".

[bigruss]

I think there's plenty of reason to be emotionally invested on the pro-side also, if you believe that it'd be a good thing, consistent with the best of American values, to have Muslims freely practicing their religion in that city.

Fair point.

[StrangeSox]

If the group building this community center with a mosque was an extremist group, if they had close ties with Hamas, were vocally supportive of things like the stonings in Iran, demonized Israel and called for its destruction, if they had vehemently anti-US rhetoric, I'd agree with jenks. I'd still support their right to build it, but I would agree that it could have been done to intentionally rub salt in the wound.

 

But that's not the case. The imam was on a speaking tour promoting inter-religious peace and communication. The center is designed for use by christians, muslims and jews.

[CrimsonWeltall]

Building a mosque (not a community center. It's a community center as much as a catholic church is a community center. Do you really think catholics or jews or athiests will be welcome with open arms?)

 

What Catholic Church has a bookstore, food court, fitness center, swimming pool, basketball court, culinary school, performing arts center, and an auditorium for public performances?

[lostfan]

You know, when I read about this topic where conservatives are talking about it more or less unchallenged I've seen several times people say explicitly "finally someone is standing up to Islam," "Muslims won't tell us how we should act," or some combination or variation on that.

[NorthSideSox72]

What Catholic Church has a bookstore, food court, fitness center, swimming pool, basketball court, culinary school, performing arts center, and an auditorium for public performances?

There are megachurchs, particularly in the South, that are all that plus a Starbucks.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Well, the NYC mosque and quran burnings are now officially intertwined, and a whole lot weirder. The Pentacostal whacko says he won't do the burn now, because the imam of a mosque in central Florida has promised him that the mosque a thousand miles away will be moved.

 

WTF?

 

If any governmental body had any hand in any sort of deal here - which I doubt - I will be f***ing livid.

 

[kapkomet]

Someone says something about how Muslims are being threatened without explicitly blaming it on the tea party...Kap doesn't deny that the threats are hapepning, but assumes its an attack on him and his tea party that he must respond to. Because any time anyone talks about how a minority is facing prejudice...the tea party must be defended.

 

Wonder why that is.

 

 

I think this commentary also applies excellently to Kap's continual "How dare you insinuate that the tea party is racist!" gag line.

 

 

Thanks for stating your bigotry so bluntly. To be a proper analogy, you'd need this:

 

Hiroshima:US building monument to Oppenheimer/others::WTC:Al Qaeda building monument to Bin Laden

 

The US was directly responsible for the atomic bombs. All muslims are not directly responsible for 9/11.

 

 

No, I don't see how it would be viewed as disrespectful unless you're a bigot who views all billion+ adherents of a religion in the light of the extremists. Muslims died in the WTC, too.

 

Also, glad to see you backpedalling from your "on the very spot" claim and avoiding, like everyone else, the "how far is far enough?" question.

 

All Catholic Churches within 2 blocks of parks, playgrounds, schools, public pools or any place frequented by children should be demolished. No new churches should be allowed near them. Don't you see how allowing the Catholic priests near children is a bit disrespectful to all of the kids they've raped? Really? Just a little?

 

Thanks for making my points so clearly. Obviously, we're bigoted, racist, slimeballs... and necessarily, we must link "conservatives" and "tea party" to this, because after all, it's the only way to keep perpetuating the cycle of destroying anything that could remotely be against the message of today's liberal agenda. Let's throw in some gay hate here while we're at the stereotyping.

 

As for the "Amerikkka" crap, it seems to me that our current president loved that message. The message hasn't changed after those 20 years of sitting in the pews taking notes. Destroy all that doesn't fit your message or beliefs. Call out names, call out bigotry, call out racism, call out everyone for everything and never take responsibility for anything.

 

Oh, the messages here are loud and clear. My little comments and "stupid posts" do have a larger point, and like I said, I'm glad that the points were made in the last 5 pages of this very thread over and over, and really for the last 3-4 years, really.

[bigruss]

Honestly Kap, I have not seen a real argument from you in such time, besides "We muuuuuuust be racists for saying such a thing." Why can you not just say why you feel or believe as you do?

[lostfan]

I see things straight from the source often enough that i don't really have to put qualifiers on my arguments. I can only take so much of that because I honestly get creeped out when I read discussion on certain conservative sites too long.

[Balta1701]

Thanks for making my points so clearly. Obviously, we're bigoted, racist, slimeballs... and necessarily, we must link "conservatives" and "tea party" to this, because after all, it's the only way to keep perpetuating the cycle of destroying anything that could remotely be against the message of today's liberal agenda. Let's throw in some gay hate here while we're at the stereotyping.

 

As for the "Amerikkka" crap, it seems to me that our current president loved that message. The message hasn't changed after those 20 years of sitting in the pews taking notes. Destroy all that doesn't fit your message or beliefs. Call out names, call out bigotry, call out racism, call out everyone for everything and never take responsibility for anything.

 

Oh, the messages here are loud and clear. My little comments and "stupid posts" do have a larger point, and like I said, I'm glad that the points were made in the last 5 pages of this very thread over and over, and really for the last 3-4 years, really.

Basically, your defense of the anti-Muslim hate has been:

 

1. Insist that it has nothing to do with hating Muslims

2. Insist again that it has nothing to do with hating Muslims

3. Be prompted to explain why

4. Increase font size

5. Get called out on the fact that you haven't explained a thing

6. Become outraged at the fact that anyone would dare imply that there's any anti-Muslim sentiment behind the anti-Muslim movement

7. Get prompted to explain why there are anti-Muslim groups popping up everywhere

8. Increase font size.

 

Frankly...if "no arson at Mosque sites" is "destroying anything that could remotely be considered against the liberal agenda", you're damn right I want to destroy that. Because we ought to be better than the B.S. "Be afraid of them!" crap that is being pushed right now.

[Rex Kickass]

At this point, we are going to move the discussion away from other poster's posting styles, if you don't mind.

 

The topic is The Democrats, love em or not! (I prefer you love em, personally) The topic is not: anyone on this board currently. (Unless you are a public political figure.)

[southsider2k5]

At this point, we are going to move the discussion away from other poster's posting styles, if you don't mind.

 

The topic is The Democrats, love em or not! (I prefer you love em, personally) The topic is not: anyone on this board currently. (Unless you are a public political figure.)

 

not.

[kapkomet]

Basically, your defense of the anti-Muslim hate has been:

 

1. Insist that it has nothing to do with hating Muslims

2. Insist again that it has nothing to do with hating Muslims

3. Be prompted to explain why

4. Increase font size

5. Get called out on the fact that you haven't explained a thing

6. Become outraged at the fact that anyone would dare imply that there's any anti-Muslim sentiment behind the anti-Muslim movement

7. Get prompted to explain why there are anti-Muslim groups popping up everywhere

8. Increase font size.

 

Frankly...if "no arson at Mosque sites" is "destroying anything that could remotely be considered against the liberal agenda", you're damn right I want to destroy that. Because we ought to be better than the B.S. "Be afraid of them!" crap that is being pushed right now.

 

You control the talking points, obviously, and how they are handled.