Winter Meetings Chit-Chat

[DBAHO]

As much as I hate Vazquez, you'd have to say he'd be significantly better in 2009 than Marquez.

I'm reserving judgement on Marquez until they teach him a cutter. Could be another Jon Garland I think.

 

But the Sox could still go and trade for Bailey, which would make him the 4th starter and Richard / Poreda the 5th starter, with Marquez starying in AAA, and then you go out and sign a replacement in LF (which I think the Sox would do, because KW says that we're right on our payroll limits as of this moment).

[Friend of Nordhagen]

Interesting note today by Rosenthal about J.J. Putz, which might tell us what the market would be for Jenks: Cardinals have offered Rick Ankiel and a prospect for Putz.

 

Now maybe Putz is more valuable than Jenks (older but with better velocity), but that's a pretty good return. Ankiel's a good ballplayer.

 

 

[AWhiteSoxinNJ]

KW doesnt usually do too much at this event.

 

Are you kidding??? KW aquired GOD at the winter meetings last year!!!

[AWhiteSoxinNJ]

Interesting note today by Rosenthal about J.J. Putz, which might tell us what the market would be for Jenks: Cardinals have offered Rick Ankiel and a prospect for Putz.

 

Now maybe Putz is more valuable than Jenks (older but with better velocity), but that's a pretty good return. Ankiel's a good ballplayer.

 

 

I think Jenks has more value with Putz injury issues last season.

[fathom]

Interesting note today by Rosenthal about J.J. Putz, which might tell us what the market would be for Jenks: Cardinals have offered Rick Ankiel and a prospect for Putz.

 

Now maybe Putz is more valuable than Jenks (older but with better velocity), but that's a pretty good return. Ankiel's a good ballplayer.

 

Ankiel's a free agent after this year, I believe.

[Dick Allen]

I'm reserving judgement on Marquez until they teach him a cutter. Could be another Jon Garland I think.

 

But the Sox could still go and trade for Bailey, which would make him the 4th starter and Richard / Poreda the 5th starter, with Marquez starying in AAA, and then you go out and sign a replacement in LF (which I think the Sox would do, because KW says that we're right on our payroll limits as of this moment).

If all he needs is a cutter, don't you think the Yankees would teach him one? And if they teach him, what is the guarantee it will be any good? If its that easy, why don't they teach MacDougal a cutter? Why didn't they teach Horacio Ramirez a cutter? I love how everyone compares Marquez to Garland. It must be because he strikes no one out. As I stated before, when Garland was Marquez's age, he had more IP on the major league level than Marquez has on the minor league level. It also took a long time for Garland to be considered trustworthy.

Edited December 10, 2008 by Dick Allen

[daa84]

If all he needs is a cutter, don't you think the Yankees would teach him one? And if they teach him, what is the guarantee it will be any good? If its that easy, why don't they teach MacDougal a cutter? Why didn't they teach Horacio Ramirez a cutter? I love how everyone compares Marquez to Garland. It must be because he strikes no one out. As I stated before, when Garland was Marquez's age, he had more IP on the major league level than Marquez has on the minor league level. It also took a long time for Garland to be considered trustworthy.

pfff nobody on the yankees throws an above average cutter

[fathom]

pfff nobody on the yankees throws an above average cutter

 

Haha, well said (Mariano, Pettitte)

[beautox]

One of those two trade proposals the Marlins submitted Tuesday was rejected early Wednesday morning by the defending American League champion Rays.

 

Jeremy Hermida for two top pitching prospects, likely from a group including RHPs Jeff Niemann, Wade Davis, Jeremy Hellickson and Mitch Talbot.

link

 

I would love for Kenny to step in here and offer Poreda and Egbert for Hermida, id be willing to give up a bit more if they're not that high on Egbert.

 

a future outfield of Hermida, Danks, Quentin or Hermida Che Quentin or even Hermida Dickerson Quentin would be alot of fun to watch for the next 3+ years

[DBAHO]

If all he needs is a cutter, don't you think the Yankees would teach him one? And if they teach him, what is the guarantee it will be any good? If its that easy, why don't they teach MacDougal a cutter? Why didn't they teach Horacio Ramirez a cutter? I love how everyone compares Marquez to Garland. It must be because he strikes no one out. As I stated before, when Garland was Marquez's age, he had more IP on the major league level than Marquez has on the minor league level. It also took a long time for Garland to be considered trustworthy.

All I'm saying is that a few starting pitchers that we've had over the past such as Esteban Loaiza and more recently John Danks, learnt the cutter, because their fastball wasn't really enough of a strikeout pitch to begin with, and from reading Marquez's stuff, he seems like a perfect candidate.

 

And you're not going to teach guys like Ramirez a cutter during the season (especially when he was only on the team for what 2 or 3 months).

 

I'm only comparing Marquez to Garland because they're both sinkerball pitchers, and KW has gone out to try and acquire those type of pitchers, to negate the flyball effects of the Cell.

[kjshoe04]

I think our ability to improve pitchers is greatly overstated. It's worked a couple times, but it's also failed several times.

[Dick Allen]

pfff nobody on the yankees throws an above average cutter

Well, the do have that one guy who supposedly has the best one of all-time...........................

[fathom]

All I'm saying is that a few starting pitchers that we've had over the past such as Esteban Loaiza and more recently John Danks, learnt the cutter, because their fastball wasn't really enough of a strikeout pitch to begin with, and from reading Marquez's stuff, he seems like a perfect candidate.

 

Danks I'll give you. Loaiza had something else going on it seems like.

[daa84]

id love to nab hermida...not sure if id deal away poreda, but id think strongly about it...unfortunately i think the cubs are going to be the ones who end up with him

[Dick Allen]

All I'm saying is that a few starting pitchers that we've had over the past such as Esteban Loaiza and more recently John Danks, learnt the cutter, because their fastball wasn't really enough of a strikeout pitch to begin with, and from reading Marquez's stuff, he seems like a perfect candidate.

 

And you're not going to teach guys like Ramirez a cutter during the season (especially when he was only on the team for what 2 or 3 months).

 

I'm only comparing Marquez to Garland because they're both sinkerball pitchers, and KW has gone out to try and acquire those type of pitchers, to negate the flyball effects of the Cell.

So, the Sox can't teach one on the fly, but will be able to in spring training and Marquez should be ready for the rotation? I don't think that makes much sense. Javy Vazquez was popping off about being in Atlanta will help him because he's a flyball pitcher. Maybe he should look at his splits. He pitched better and gave up fewer homers at USCF, as do several White Sox pitchers.

[Dick Allen]

Danks I'll give you. Loaiza had something else going on it seems like.

Also Loaiza started throwing his cutter in Toronto. The Sox didn't teach it to him, and his success was pretty short-lived.

Edited December 10, 2008 by Dick Allen

[daa84]

I think our ability to improve pitchers is greatly overstated. It's worked a couple times, but it's also failed several times.

i dont think its necessarily our ability to improve pitchers, as much as it has been our ability to scout other teams and take advantage of teams who are down on players who are likely to improve....people so often want to see results out of a kid who is just 22 years old, but people forget it takes time for that talent to have an impact in the bigs...

 

on the topic of marquez, i like his future better than most do if for no other reason than his minor league HR rates are ridiculously low (34 in 560 IP)...and before this year in AAA they were insanely low (22 in 480 IP)

[DBAHO]

So, the Sox can't teach one on the fly, but will be able to in spring training and Marquez should be ready for the rotation? I don't think that makes much sense. Javy Vazquez was popping off about being in Atlanta will help him because he's a flyball pitcher. Maybe he should look at his splits. He pitched better and gave up fewer homers at USCF, as do several White Sox pitchers.

This is from Danks in ST;

 

http://www.southsidesox.com/story/2008/2/28/1717/48238

 

I think they could do exactly the same with Marquez come ST in 2009. Looking at his numbers etc., he needs to add something to his repotoire;

 

Marquez endured a difficult season, getting knocked around in Triple-A before being sent back to Trenton in the second half. A 2004 supplemental first-round pick, he entered 2008 as the Yankees' No. 7 prospect but would have ranked in the 21-30 range this season had he remained a Yankee. Marquez made progress with his changeup and curve in 2007 but was back to relying almost exclusively on his 88-92 mph sinker (which can reach a bit higher) and adding a slider in '08. He's a defense-dependent, early-contact kind of pitcher who lacks a strikeout pitch. Overall, he was 8-8, 4.47 with just 51 strikeouts in 102 2/3 innings. He finished strong, pitching well during Trenton's Eastern League title run, and is pitching for Peoria in the Arizona Fall League (1-2, 4.50).

 

You're right on Javy though. His K rate was certainly better at home, and that's maybe because opposing hitters were going for the longball more against him at the Cell, considering it's such a good HR park and all.

[NorthSideSox72]

Interesting note on the Redding/Taveras trade... it apparently fell through because one of the two players did not pass their physical.

 

[DBAHO]

Interesting note on the Redding/Taveras trade... it apparently fell through because one of the two players did not pass their physical.

Taveras with a lower leg injury (stress fractures IIRC) I think.

[Steve9347]

hilarious

[Dick Allen]

Interesting note on the Redding/Taveras trade... it apparently fell through because one of the two players did not pass their physical.

Another thing to note, Taveras was also mentioned as a candidate to be non tendered.

[RockRaines]

Another thing to note, Taveras was also mentioned as a candidate to be non tendered.

There are several CF'ers that will be non-tendered. I also think Felix Pie will be non-tendered, which would be a good buy low transaction. Even though the Cubs believe he is good enough to be the centerpiece in every deal.

[NorthSideSox72]

If you want a CF who is relatively buy-low right now, but has the talent when healthy to do very well, we should really be looking at Kotsay. And I'd bet that KW is doing just that. I'd much rather take a chance on Kotsay, than Taveras or Pie.

 

[Dick Allen]

If you want a CF who is relatively buy-low right now, but has the talent when healthy to do very well, we should really be looking at Kotsay. And I'd bet that KW is doing just that. I'd much rather take a chance on Kotsay, than Taveras or Pie.

He seems too much like Darin Erstad for me. A guy who will play more than he should, plus he's not the defender he used to be. I still don't understand why Pie would be non tendered. I don't think he's eligible for arbitration.

Edited December 10, 2008 by Dick Allen