Normally my instinct would be to totally agree, but there's one thing that's bugging me; the WHO's decision to move to an alert that's 1 stage below calling it a full blown pandemic (the stage 5 thing they did yesterday). Given all the data that's publicly out there, the confirmed numbers of infected, the fact that they're trying to move the casualty numbers down and seemingly tell people it's not as scary as it's being made out to be, that's an official move in the opposite direction by an org that I'm hoping has at least some semblance of an idea of what they're doing, or at least which would be questioned loudly if they were obviously making a mistake.

 

If they're moving the alert up when all the signals are saying "it doesn't look that bad right now", it kinda makes me wonder what they know that I don't.

 

And on top of it they aren't stopping any infected people from coming into the country... That is so completely inconsistent. It tells me that this administration has no idea how to react, and it is covering all of their bases, from panic, to acting like there isn't a problem.

And on top of it they aren't stopping any infected people from coming into the country... That is so completely inconsistent. It tells me that this administration has no idea how to react, and it is covering all of their bases, from panic, to acting like there isn't a problem.

 

WHO =! Obama Administration. They are the ones saying closing borders doesn't work.

Edited April 30, 200916 yr by StrangeSox

WHO =! Obama Administration. They are the ones saying closing borders doesn't work.

 

And our administration isn't doing anything to stop even infected people from coming into the country. Are you really trying to tell me that stopping people who have the infection does nothing to stop the flu from spreading more here? That is pretty counter intuitive if you ask me.

And our administration isn't doing anything to stop even infected people from coming into the country. Are you really trying to tell me that stopping people who have the infection does nothing to stop the flu from spreading more here? That is pretty counter intuitive if you ask me.

If the contagious phase and the symptomatic phase don't happen at the same time, then it's true.

If the contagious phase and the symptomatic phase don't happen at the same time, then it's true.

 

And we are stopping neither at the borders. Thanks for reaffirming my point.

And we are stopping neither at the borders. Thanks for reaffirming my point.

How do you stop an asymptomatic person at a border or on an airplane? The only way to do that would be mandatory blood tests before you board. Or keep everyone locked up in quarantine for 24 hours before allowing them to cross the border to see if they become symptomatic.

How do you stop an asymptomatic person at a border or on an airplane? The only way to do that would be mandatory blood tests before you board. Or keep everyone locked up in quarantine for 24 hours before allowing them to cross the border to see if they become symptomatic.

 

Are you telling me that a person coughing, running a fever, etc, is not spreading this?

Are you telling me that a person coughing, running a fever, etc, is not spreading this?

I'm not saying that they can't, I'm saying that a typical progression for the flu is that you are at your greatest risk of transmission of the disease before the symptoms become fully developed, because the symptoms are your body's way of fighting back. I can't speak for this particular flu other than to cite the WHO report I linked earlier in this thread saying that it doesn't make sense to stop people at the border because they can be contagious without being symptomatic. It's possible, but the thing's been out there for 4 days, I don't think anyone knows very much about its development yet.

I'm not saying that they can't, I'm saying that a typical progression for the flu is that you are at your greatest risk of transmission of the disease before the symptoms become fully developed, because the symptoms are your body's way of fighting back. I can't speak for this particular flu other than to cite the WHO report I linked earlier in this thread saying that it doesn't make sense to stop people at the border because they can be contagious without being symptomatic. It's possible, but the thing's been out there for 4 days, I don't think anyone knows very much about its development yet.

 

So how is stopping absolutely no one helpful? I mean even the President is talking about not going to school or work while you are symptomatic, but he isn't going to do anything himself to stop people from coming here who are exactly what he is talking about. It makes no sense to me.

So how is stopping absolutely no one helpful? I mean even the President is talking about not going to school or work while you are symptomatic, but he isn't going to do anything himself to stop people from coming here who are exactly what he is talking about. It makes no sense to me.

Shutting down schools or businesses where a person is symptomatic actually strikes me as the right way to do things if the case I mentioned is true...it's not the person who's already sick you worry about, it's the 10 people who sit next to them in class who haven't shown symptoms yet but who could be able to transmit it. You keep them at home and you cut off the spread, because once they're actually sick they're not coming in anyway.

 

As I keep saying, the only option that would do anything regarding travel is to close the border and to start legitimately shutting down air travel, especially since it's already moved overseas (so you can't just focus on Mexico).

 

If you're ready to endorse that step, then you think this is worse than the current reports say it will be. Could be you're right and the correct step is to just shut everything down now and let it burn out quietly.

Seriously, its the flu.

 

The orgs are acting this way because nobody wants to have mud on their face if something unforseen happens ie Katrina where gov't are proven to be negligent. At the end of the day, people have stomach aches, diarrea and a stuffy nose.

And our administration isn't doing anything to stop even infected people from coming into the country. Are you really trying to tell me that stopping people who have the infection does nothing to stop the flu from spreading more here? That is pretty counter intuitive if you ask me.

 

I think its a cost/benefits analysis. Closing down the borders would be massively disruptive economically and screening isn't very effective due to long incubation periods. Whatever minimal gain we'd get by shutting everything down is quickly outweighed by the cost of the action. This doesn't address the practicality of shutting down the border, either.

Normally my instinct would be to totally agree, but there's one thing that's bugging me; the WHO's decision to move to an alert that's 1 stage below calling it a full blown pandemic (the stage 5 thing they did yesterday). Given all the data that's publicly out there, the confirmed numbers of infected, the fact that they're trying to move the casualty numbers down and seemingly tell people it's not as scary as it's being made out to be, that's an official move in the opposite direction by an org that I'm hoping has at least some semblance of an idea of what they're doing, or at least which would be questioned loudly if they were obviously making a mistake.

 

If they're moving the alert up when all the signals are saying "it doesn't look that bad right now", it kinda makes me wonder what they know that I don't.

Even if the WHO raises their level of alertness to the highest possible point, and this swine flu is a full-blown, world wide pandemic, it shouldn't mean anything. It'll just be a disease now found all around the world, opposed to a few countries.

 

I don't believe there's anything they're hiding. Personally, I won't be worried until the death toll exceeds 100,000. At the current pace of known death rates, we'll have a LONG way to go before this point is reached.

I think its a cost/benefits analysis. Closing down the borders would be massively disruptive economically and screening isn't very effective due to long incubation periods. Whatever minimal gain we'd get by shutting everything down is quickly outweighed by the cost of the action. This doesn't address the practicality of shutting down the border, either.

Closing down the borders would sure screw all those companies employing illegal immigrants that work for pathetic wages.

Closing down the borders would sure screw all those companies employing illegal immigrants that work for pathetic wages.

?

 

No it wouldn't. Illegal immigrants don't go over the border over and over again. They go across once and then stay here as long as they can until they've earned enough to go home. If you go over the border repeatedly, you're increasing the likelihood you'll get caught.

Closing down the borders would sure screw all those companies employing illegal immigrants that work for pathetic wages.

No, it would screw the businesses on the border that get legal shoppers either way. And legal shipping.

 

ETA: Also, its a pointless discussion, as it is just not reasonably possible to do that anyway.

 

?

 

No it wouldn't. Illegal immigrants don't go over the border over and over again. They go across once and then stay here as long as they can until they've earned enough to go home. If you go over the border repeatedly, you're increasing the likelihood you'll get caught.

(sigh) Here I go having to explain a sentence long post

 

I didn't mean to suggest these immigrants go back and forth every single day. Obviously, If the borders are shut down, you can't even cross once to, as you described, live here and earn enough to send home.

 

Who knows how long a hypothetical border closure would even be? If we were to enforce it, you can sure as hell bet the number of Border Agents would increase dramatically and the influx of illegals (who obviously were not going to go over the border, open or not) would be cut down. I'm sure there would be a lot of resentment towards Mexicans during such a period as well.

(sigh) Here I go having to explain a sentence long post

 

I didn't mean to suggest these immigrants go back and forth every single day. Obviously, If the borders are shut down, you can't even cross once to, as you described, live here and earn enough to send home.

 

Who knows how long a hypothetical border closure would even be? If we were to enforce it, you can sure as hell bet the number of Border Agents would increase dramatically and the influx of illegals (who obviously were not going to go over the border, open or not) would be cut down. I'm sure there would be a lot of resentment towards Mexicans during such a period as well.

Actually, if you shut the borders, even if you put every available agent plus some National Guard in to help, you'd still only be able to focus on the major crossings. You would in fact get more people trying to cross illegally (even those that might normally be legal) in remote, rugged areas. This would also result in all sorts of other issues. The only way to truly close the border in an effective way would require hundreds of thousands of troops and agents, which is just not practical unless this was truly a national security emergency.

 

It would also screw over legal migrant agriculture workers and the farmers who employ them.

 

http://my.earthlink.net/article/us?guid=20...904301041156527

What NOT to do.

 

Also, shutting the borders over flu is just downright ridiculous, so Im guessing thats another reason.

In the past, it was said that a black man would be president when pigs fly. Now 100 days into President Obama's term and what happens? Swine flu.

Closing down the borders would sure screw all those companies employing illegal immigrants that work for pathetic wages.

 

well we certainly can't let that happen!

What NOT to do.

 

 

lol

 

thanks for the tip

 

 

In the past, it was said that a black man would be president when pigs fly. Now 100 days into President Obama's term and what happens? Swine flu.

Not if this pig was owned by Biden!