The thing to remember about people's work ethics is that the steroids help with that. They enable you to work harder and longer in the weight room without having to give your body as much time to recover. We hear about b*tch t*ts's work ethic all the time, all the hours he put in at the gym, etc., ditto tetrahydrogestrinone's work ethic, always building up at the gym...they're able to do that in the first place because of the steroids, it's not just some side thing they're oding.

 

Oh I know, I'm just saying the premise that Manny doesn't work hard is bull s***. I can't speak for how he has the strength/energy to work that hard though, and it now appears he had some help.

Canseco can forget a lot of things if you give him some money.

He's also not a damn psychic, he doesn't know about every player in the game. A lot of his "outings" have been the result of hearsay and guess work. He's just willing to throw names out there because he truly has nothing to lose at this point.

So are you saying that Frank Thomas has paid off Canseco not to talk?

Not at all, but Jose has "forgotten" a few things about steroid users who have backed some of his projects. Roger Clemens is one.

I'm sorry your hero has been exposed, I'm sure its tough for you, but name one person who has been suspended for 50 games that hasn't lost in the court of public opinion. There have been several who never had a positive test that have lost. Manny is cooked.

Maybe with alot of the public, but Big Mac, Sosa, Bonds, etc. all still have many supporters. Also, on the 51st game he is going to come back and just tear it up.

He's also not a damn psychic, he doesn't know about every player in the game. A lot of his "outings" have been the result of hearsay and guess work. He's just willing to throw names out there because he truly has nothing to lose at this point.

The problem is...he keeps being right. There keep being rumors about the right guys. Players aren't stupid.

I'm gonna go with... no. He's refused to play at times, is lazy on defense and running the bases... his work ethic on the field and about playing on the field is as bad as I have seen. I can't comment on what time he gets to the park, I have no way of knowing that. I'm saying, if I were a Sawx fan, I'd be pissed at his lazy ass out there on the field. I pay your ridiculous salary, jackass, so at least make it look like you appreciate the job you wouldn't have it it weren't for me.

 

He was the best player on two Red Sox teams who won World Championships for a franchise who hadn't previously won one since 1918. He worked PLENTY hard enough for that fanbase, and if they didn't like him "not looking like he appreciated his job", it's their own damn fault.

Holy, s***. It makes sense but... WOW.

So, for the couple Manny defenders in here...let's hypothetically assume Canseco is right again, and Manny's name is among the 104 from 2003.

 

Any opinion change?

The problem is...he keeps being right. There keep being rumors about the right guys. Players aren't stupid.

Well of course he's right. Any cynical baseball fan could have put together a pretty good list of names back in 2003, he's just willing to put those names in a book.

Rule of thumb: if a player comes up in baseball looking like a toothpick, and 10 years later, they look like a professional wrestler.....they're probably using PEDs. Manny, Sammy, and many others. They were showing highlights of Andruw Jones from his rookie year the other day on MLB Network, and he must have weighed 165 pounds.

What will be interesting is how the Dodgers handle the option for next year. I believe its a player option. What if Manny comes back and hits .280? I wonder if they will try to fight it.

Rule of thumb: if a player comes up in baseball looking like a toothpick, and 10 years later, they look like a professional wrestler.....they're probably using PEDs. Manny, Sammy, and many others. They were showing highlights of Andruw Jones from his rookie year the other day on MLB Network, and he must have weighed 165 pounds.

 

Well if that rule of thumb is so easy, do you think Frank, Thome, or Griffey used?

So what's Gammon's gonna say about this? Will he be forced to defend Manny, a player whom he's called out and ripped apart over the past year? If Manny is dirty then it taints both Sawx Championships.

What will be interesting is how the Dodgers handle the option for next year. I believe its a player option. What if Manny comes back and hits .280? I wonder if they will try to fight it.

or they could get a bargain if this is just a blip on the radar. I mean this by no matter what side you take on it, that he was jobbed by a prescription or he was using PEDs.

Rule of thumb: if a player comes up in baseball looking like a toothpick, and 10 years later, they look like a professional wrestler.....they're probably using PEDs. Manny, Sammy, and many others. They were showing highlights of Andruw Jones from his rookie year the other day on MLB Network, and he must have weighed 165 pounds.

 

He was also what, 18?

 

Look at Jim Thome when he came into the league.

 

Toothpick.

 

Look at PGA golfers 15 years ago. Part of the explanation is that nutrition and physical fitness have taken a much larger place in the list of "to do's" for athletes.

Edited May 7, 200916 yr by iamshack

Well if that rule of thumb is so easy, do you think Frank, Thome, or Griffey used?

 

It would shock me, absolutely shock me, if all 3 of them were clean. I have no inside knowledge about any of them though, but it would seem unbelievable that everyone else was doing it, but 3 of our favorite players from the generation weren't.

So what's Gammon's gonna say about this? Will he be forced to defend Manny, a player whom he's called out over the past year? If Manny is dirty then it taints both Sawx Championships.

Boy, I'm probably going to catch a ton of flack for this, but I think there's many people in the media, Gammons included, who got a free pass for not red flagging the steroid era earlier. So many of them just bought the "increased workout" program at face value when if they went to their local gym and asked a rookie personal trainer they could have obtained some great insight.

 

He'll try and spin the Manny excuse or that he wasn't doing it in '04 or '07

So what's Gammon's gonna say about this? Will he be forced to defend Manny, a player whom he's called out and ripped apart over the past year? If Manny is dirty then it taints both Sawx Championships.

 

That Red Sox team had so many questionable players....how about David Ortiz and his sudden power surge? Maybe it wasn't just a change in philosophy. Trot Nixon? That was about as obvious as Ben Davis.

So what's Gammon's gonna say about this? Will he be forced to defend Manny, a player whom he's called out and ripped apart over the past year? If Manny is dirty then it taints both Sawx Championships.

 

I bet Gammons says NOTHING and this goes to Olney

It would shock me, absolutely shock me, if all 3 of them were clean. I have no inside knowledge about any of them though, but it would seem unbelievable that everyone else was doing it, but 3 of our favorite players from the generation weren't.

 

Agreed.

Boy, I'm probably going to catch a ton of flack for this, but I think there's many people in the media, Gammons included, who got a free pass for not red flagging the steroid era earlier. So many of them just bought the "increased workout" program at face value when if they went to their local gym and asked a rookie personal trainer they could have obtained some great insight.

 

He'll try and spin the Manny excuse or that he wasn't doing it in '04 or '07

No, you're right and a few media members have come out and said as much. That they ignored the obvious signs during the 90's when they should have been reporting it. Gammons will simply take Manny's word for it: a prescription drug triggered the positive test, Manny's no juicer.

here's an old pic of thome

 

http://badwax.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/...l-jim-thome.jpg

I bet Gammons says NOTHING and this goes to Olney

He's gonna have to say something. Every Boston area radio station has to be knocking down his door for a comment right now.

That Red Sox team had so many questionable players....how about David Ortiz and his sudden power surge? Maybe it wasn't just a change in philosophy. Trot Nixon? That was about as obvious as Ben Davis.

I have trouble finding any world series championship team over the past 20 years or so that didn't have at least one highly questionable figure.

I dont really buy into the picture test 100 percent. My Dad looked a hell of a lot bulkier and bigger when you look at his pictures from 18-20 and compare them to 35-40