JPN366 Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 QUOTE (T R U @ Sep 10, 2009 -> 04:47 PM) Theres a difference between following the minor league teams of your favorite MLB team and then getting all bent out of shape when something like this happens.. And besides, me making a comment about someone caring way too much about minor league baseball doesn't mean I care way too much about minor league baseball.. you're just trying to be a douche You might not want to call a Soxtalk admin a "douche." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 (edited) If you're a White Sox fan, you should want the future players of the team to care about winning and losing, even in the minors. If the playoffs didn't matter, then the Barons 40 man members Dayan Viciedo and Clevelan Santeliz would be called up to Chicago instead of trying to help the Barons win the SL title. Edited September 10, 2009 by JPN366 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie Ball Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 QUOTE (JPN366 @ Sep 10, 2009 -> 11:00 PM) If you're a White Sox fan, you should want the future players of the team to care about winning and losing, even in the minors. If the playoffs didn't matter, then the Barons 40 man members Dayan Viciedo and Clevelan Santeliz would be called up to Chicago instead of trying to help the Barons win the SL title. Winning doesn't matter, but development does. You don't need to win to develop, you just need to play and that's what Dayan and co will be doing in Birmingham, something they wouldn't be doing in Chicago. If Kenny and Ozzie felt that the Sox would be a better team with Viciedo or Santeliz or whoever it may be on the Major League roster, then you can bet they would be there. Daisuke was the same situation, sure the timing was unfortunate for the DASH, but if the Red Sox feel that it's in their best interests to give Matsuzaka a rehab start then that's what they're going to do, and in this case, what they did do, the fact that it came during a Carolina League playoff game is irrelevant to them. Also caring about winning and actually winning are not the same thing. I'm sure the Dash players will have been pissed off at the fact that they faced Daisuke and it probably spurred them on to try even harder, but they still lost. That doesn't mean they didn't want to win, they just weren't good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 QUOTE (Ozzie Ball @ Sep 10, 2009 -> 05:19 PM) Winning doesn't matter, but development does. You don't need to win to develop, you just need to play and that's what Dayan and co will be doing in Birmingham, something they wouldn't be doing in Chicago. If Kenny and Ozzie felt that the Sox would be a better team with Viciedo or Santeliz or whoever it may be on the Major League roster, then you can bet they would be there. Daisuke was the same situation, sure the timing was unfortunate for the DASH, but if the Red Sox feel that it's in their best interests to give Matsuzaka a rehab start then that's what they're going to do, and in this case, what they did do, the fact that it came during a Carolina League playoff game is irrelevant to them. Also caring about winning and actually winning are not the same thing. I'm sure the Dash players will have been pissed off at the fact that they faced Daisuke and it probably spurred them on to try even harder, but they still lost. That doesn't mean they didn't want to win, they just weren't good enough. See, this is an example of how you respectfully disagree. You don't have to insult and demean people if you don't agree with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 QUOTE (JPN366 @ Sep 10, 2009 -> 04:59 PM) You might not want to call a Soxtalk admin a "douche." Eh, I was indeed giving him a little bit of s*** for his post, so I can't really complain about the response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 QUOTE (Ozzie Ball @ Sep 10, 2009 -> 05:19 PM) Winning doesn't matter, but development does. You don't need to win to develop, you just need to play and that's what Dayan and co will be doing in Birmingham, something they wouldn't be doing in Chicago. If Kenny and Ozzie felt that the Sox would be a better team with Viciedo or Santeliz or whoever it may be on the Major League roster, then you can bet they would be there. Daisuke was the same situation, sure the timing was unfortunate for the DASH, but if the Red Sox feel that it's in their best interests to give Matsuzaka a rehab start then that's what they're going to do, and in this case, what they did do, the fact that it came during a Carolina League playoff game is irrelevant to them. Also caring about winning and actually winning are not the same thing. I'm sure the Dash players will have been pissed off at the fact that they faced Daisuke and it probably spurred them on to try even harder, but they still lost. That doesn't mean they didn't want to win, they just weren't good enough. I wouldn't go so far as to say that winning doesn't matter at all. There is something to be said for having your players develop on teams that play cohesively and win together. Its a secondary consideration, but it isn't meaningless. The Twins and Braves both do this sort of thing well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 10, 2009 -> 07:00 PM) Eh, I was indeed giving him a little bit of s*** for his post, so I can't really complain about the response. Iron fist, Matt. Iron fist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 QUOTE (JPN366 @ Sep 10, 2009 -> 04:44 PM) 2008 SL M-Braves, 2008 Sally Augusta, 2007 Sally Columbus, 2006 Sally Lakewood, 2001 INT Louisville. It's as simple as using Google. Winning is good for player development, especially in the playoffs. Do you want a guy to make the major league team having a history of not caring about winning and losing? You totally missed the point. I could've googled it. lol. Point was that without googling it 99% of baseball fans wouldn't have a clue. Because the minor league playoffs simply don't matter. Winning certainly doesn't hurt anything. But it's just not a priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 QUOTE (JPN366 @ Sep 10, 2009 -> 05:29 PM) They're playing a 5 game series. Those league championships matter to the fans of the teams. It is insulting to me and everyone who lives in a minor league town to say it doesn't matter. If you want to be a elitist a$$hole about it, then fine. But I'm proud of my minor league team and their 92 wins, I don't live in Chicago or in a major city. But I'm damn sure happy to pay less than $1,000 a year to take in 70 baseball games, with the possibility of comped tickets to more games if they reach the playoffs. And I'm certainly proud to see all 13 of those championship flags flying in the breeze beyond the outfield walls. *Sigh* I'll guess I'll go repeat myself once again. I know they matter to the fans, and for the 8th time i never said it did not matter. In no way was I being "an elitist asshole" (look who's calling people names now by the way). I was simply saying it like it is. And i'll reiterate; I grew up in an AHL city and we were often pilfered by the NHL team. So I know what it's like. Sometimes it sucks. But it's just the way the game is. Just last year, for example, the Pens sent down Miro Satan to Wilkes Barre half way through the year so they didn't lose him and although he did not play, the Bruins placed Milan Lucic on Providence's playoff roster to get him experience if they got knocked out early. Point being, I know how much it matters to fans of those minor league cities. I do. And I would have loved to win one when we made the playoffs. I'd routinely spend $500 a year at games. But that still doesn't make it wrong though. And I'm willing to bet if it was Peavy making a rehab start for our top remaining farm club as we were in a playoff hunt hoping to get him back no one (or very few) would say a word about it It would be one thing if Dice-K had made a few starts with Salem before yesterday, but he didn't. That would be his first and only start with Salem. So, like it or not, it is a d*** move. If you want to defend the Red Sox, be my guest. But I'm pretty sure there's no precedence for this. Like it or not, it really isn't. If the Red Sox felt this was best for Dice-K and thus best for the Red Sox, they have every right to do what they want with him. But, if you'd rather think Epstein & Co. were sitting around a table a few days ago and said to themselves "What could we do to be real assholes? Oh, I know, let's start Dice-K in the A ball playoff game!", then by all means go think that. It's just not practical. If the Red Sox honestly thought that was best for their club, who am I, or you, or anyone, to tell them how to run their team? QUOTE (JPN366 @ Sep 10, 2009 -> 05:32 PM) You watch too much ESPN if you think the Red Sox are not capable of being classless. You like putting words in people's mouths eh? Cuz I never said that. QUOTE (JPN366 @ Sep 10, 2009 -> 05:38 PM) The players on those teams care, you obviously haven't been to a minor league game and seen how much they care. If the minors are about development, then how does it help development to have to face someone like Matsuzaka in a playoff scenario in the Carolina League. Boston does not care about the White Sox players' development, just as the White Sox don't care about the Red Sox players' development. It's all about what is best for each individual ML franchise. It's just how it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 10, 2009 -> 11:59 PM) You totally missed the point. I could've googled it. lol. Point was that without googling it 99% of baseball fans wouldn't have a clue. Because the minor league playoffs simply don't matter. Winning certainly doesn't hurt anything. But it's just not a priority. The minor league playoffs do matter... to people who care about minor league baseball. I find the conversation in this thread interesting because it's very easy to separate those people who care about minor league baseball from those that don't. Do you realize that in 2009, minor league attendance (based on paid tickets) is going to top 40 million fans for the 5th consecutive year? Bottom line is that there are ALOT of people who care about minor league baseball and follow their local teams much more closely than they do major league baseball. To those fans, and the players and owners of those teams, winning does matter and is a bigger priority than where and when Boston choses to rehab one of their starters. Edited September 11, 2009 by scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 (edited) I wouldn't think it was fair if Peavy made a rehab start with one of our minor league clubs in the playoffs. It would be an uneven playing field. I don't think that the Red Sox organization is sitting around thinking of ways to be jerks, but it was still a classless move, plain and simple. 1, 2 or 3 innings would have been reasonable, but to go 6 2/3 is a whole different thing. But, all I'm saying is that we fans have a right to be angry about it, angry for the players and angry for the situation. Winston-Salem won the first half and tied the second half, they're offense was already struggling. So running into Dice-K derailed them completely. I've even talked to Red Sox fans who think it was a d*** move. When Ed Collari says "it's the Red Sox, what do you expect," that says it all to me. Edited September 11, 2009 by JPN366 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Think of it this way.....the players especially the pitchers that got them there can not be to happy with it. I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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