Tigers Sign Damon - 1 yr, 8 mil; NTC

[chw42]

You're comfortable with that?

 

Let me put it another way. If the end of the season came, and I told you that there were 5 games over the course of the season where we wound up having 2 infielders hurt, would you say "That's it, our season's gone" or would you say "Well, that's not half bad, I'm glad we didn't suffer too many major injuries".

 

There have been times in the last few years where we've had as many as 3 IF's go down or get tossed during a single game. THat's how JD wound up playing SS in 2005.

 

I'm just not sure I buy that you can count on a 44 year old to be your only backup IF. I think you have to go with an 11 man pitching staff and keep the extra IF if you bring in Damon and still hold onto Kotsay.

 

Well if two of our middle infielders are hurt, we're screwed anyways. That means Gordon and Alexei are done. If either Teahen or Gordon/Alexei are hurt, we're also pretty much screwed. Having Jayson Nix there isn't going to change much of anything.

 

Vizquel's old, but he's also pretty durable. As long as Ozzie doesn't over-use him, he's a fine defensive replacement at SS, 2B, and 3B. I see nothing wrong with keeping him as the only backup IF.

 

And you're right about the pitcher thing, we don't need Randy Williams. Ozzie never uses LOOGYs correctly anyways.

Edited February 15, 2010 by chw42

[caulfield12]

We could survive without Teahen playing....Nix could do a reasonable approximation, and I don't see many counting on him (Teahen) having more than a 750 OPS in most projections.

 

It's living without Beckham and/or Ramirez over the course of the season that would be much more difficult to make up offensively.

[Vance Law]

Let me put it another way. If the end of the season came, and I told you that there were 5 games over the course of the season where we wound up having 2 infielders hurt, would you say "That's it, our season's gone" or would you say "Well, that's not half bad, I'm glad we didn't suffer too many major injuries".

 

If we had 5 games over the course of the year where 2 middle infielders got hurt, I would say, "wow, that was ridiculously bad luck. That was unlikely enough that it was not worth wasting a spot on the 25 man roster to cover that improbable contingency."

 

There have been times in the last few years where we've had as many as 3 IF's go down or get tossed during a single game.

 

How many times has that happened? How many times has it happened to 2 middle infielders in the same game, in the same season? I would assume very, very few. And over the course of the season, how many more runs would you have scored, and therefore games would you have won, if you instead used that roster slot for a legitimate hitter to DH?

 

[Disco72]

The other reason not to worry too much about an extra emergency infielder is that our infielders, except Paulie, can play more than one position, giving versatility in case one guy gets hurt. If someone is hurt for more than a few days but not long enough for the DL, the Sox can call someone up and do without an extra pitcher for 4-5 days.

[WCSox]

I think you have to go with an 11 man pitching staff and keep the extra IF if you bring in Damon and still hold onto Kotsay.

 

Given the strength of our rotation, a six-man bullpen should be doable. It's not optimal, but four of the five starters will likely throw 180-220 innings. If Freddy doesn't get the job done in the #5 spot, (1) his contract doesn't render him a roster-clogging albatross and (2) Hudson will be able to step in.

 

[Ranger]

Most teams would be in a bit of trouble if their two middle infielders go down at once.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

If we had 5 games over the course of the year where 2 middle infielders got hurt, I would say, "wow, that was ridiculously bad luck. That was unlikely enough that it was not worth wasting a spot on the 25 man roster to cover that improbable contingency."

 

 

 

How many times has that happened? How many times has it happened to 2 middle infielders in the same game, in the same season? I would assume very, very few. And over the course of the season, how many more runs would you have scored, and therefore games would you have won, if you instead used that roster slot for a legitimate hitter to DH?

That's just one of the potential problems with not keeping an extra IF.

 

If you only have 1 backup and someone gets hurt then you have no more IF. If the injured player is day-to-day, then the team would have to play the 4 IF they do have every day hoping nobody else gets hurt, beaned, ejected, etc. in the meantime. Nobody gets a day off and there is no backup plan.

 

If the injured player in the above scenario is a starter we don't want to lose, then we probably don't want to DL that guy immediately unless we have to. That means that if we want to call up an extra IF we have to send someone else down, but our team is full of veterans mostly out of options, and they'd have to pass through a waiver period unclaimed first. And even if we could send down a player who has options remaining, we not only would have wasted an option year out of sheer stupidity, but we would also have to leave the player down for a set period of time unrelated to the return of the original injured player, per MiLB roster rules. So we couldn't just send someone down for 2-3 days and then call him right back up if we needed to. It doesn't work like that.

 

There's no way we go without a secondary backup IF. That's just stupid and it's not going to happen. There's also no reason to skip out on a pitcher either. If Johnny Damon does sign here then the decision becomes Kotsay vs. Jones for 1 roster spot, with Kotsay having the upper hand as a lefty bat and backup 1B. We wouldn't have any use for 6 OFers of which only 1 can play CF.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Most teams would be in a bit of trouble if their two middle infielders go down at once.

That would be unlikely, but not as unlikely as a manager boarding a plane for a 7-game roadtrip without a healthy backup IF on the roster.

[Real]

Let's say we signed damon, and were given a situation to sign AGon, either soon or before the trade deadline

 

That would certainly mean the end of either Teahen (unlikely with the new contract), Konerko, or Quentin as we would have 10 starting players instead of 9 after the Damon signing

 

 

[fathom]

Sounds like Damon is closing in on signing with the Tigers

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/MLB-offseason-buzz-012010

[bmags]

hell of an offseason kenny

[Princess Dye]

I'm sure it's been said, but I bet there's a hilarious situation going on here... where Boras is telling Detroit they have to up their offer b/c the Sox are offering $5M

 

Meanwhile the Sox arent really offering it at all (but staying mum intentionally), and DET is trying to just wait out Boras to finally drop the demands considerably.

 

I suppose a small victory here could be the Sox sort of working with Boras on something positive, albeit a mere extra monetary straining of DET.

Edited February 16, 2010 by Princess Dye

[jphat007]

Yah, I gotta be honest. I don't think the Sox want Damon. THey want to go with their rotating DH bulls*** with Jones and Kotsay. I think Oz really likes Kotsay and KW wants to show Jones was a miracle super smart pickup. I just hope Ozzie is held accountable when it fails miserably.

Edited February 16, 2010 by jphat007

[Princess Dye]

I'm hoping this was the last shot in the dark before we get Branyan. Then plop him in a DH platoon and use Kotsay where he's best..as your best bat off the bench.

[macsandz]

Sounds like Damon is closing in on signing with the Tigers

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/MLB-offseason-buzz-012010

 

No it doesn't. It sounds like "Though the sides have exchanged proposals, a deal is not yet imminent."

[macsandz]

Yah, I gotta be honest. I don't think the Sox want Damon. THey want to go with their rotating DH bulls*** with Jones and Kotsay. I think Oz really likes Kotsay and KW wants to show Jones was a miracle super smart pickup. I just hope Ozzie is held accountable when it fails miserably.

 

The Sox are not going to negotiate with Boras if they didn't want Damon.

[jphat007]

The Sox are not going to negotiate with Boras if they didn't want Damon.

 

How do we know they are negotiating with Boras? Heyman is a good reporter but we don't know that he was right on this. More likely Boras was leaking that to get the Tigers to bid against themselves. ANd it seems to be working if 2 yr/14 mil is true.

Edited February 16, 2010 by jphat007

[macsandz]

How do we know they are negotiating with Boras? Heyman is a good reporter but we don't know that he was right on this. More likely Boras was leaking that to get the Tigers to bid against themselves. ANd it seems to be working if 2 yr/14 mil is true.

 

More than Heyman reported the Sox involvement. I listened to an interview with Kenny over the weekend and while he didn't comment on where the negotiations stood, he didn't deny that they are

active. He would have shot that down in a second if there was no offer.

In a second.

[ptatc]

How do we know they are negotiating with Boras? Heyman is a good reporter but we don't know that he was right on this. More likely Boras was leaking that to get the Tigers to bid against themselves. ANd it seems to be working if 2 yr/14 mil is true.

 

More likely KW gave Boras an offer and said take it or leave it. This latest report is Boras trying to get the Tigers to up thier offer to either get the Tigers to bid against themselves or see if KW blinks.

[jphat007]

I'm not convinced KW is interested. Unfortunately I'm not sure we'll ever know the truth.

[macsandz]

More likely KW gave Boras an offer and said take it or leave it. This latest report is Boras trying to get the Tigers to up thier offer to either get the Tigers to bid against themselves or see if KW blinks.

 

This ^

 

Kenny is not gonna blink. I think the Sox offered $4M (maybe + $2M deferred). That's the best they are gonna do. Damon is gonna get his $7M from DET.

[macsandz]

I'm not convinced KW is interested. Unfortunately I'm not sure we'll ever know the truth.

 

If Kenny wasn't interested he'd waste zero time making that public so as to undermine Boras' leverage.

[Princess Dye]

If Kenny wasn't interested he'd waste zero time making that public so as to undermine Boras' leverage.

 

Isnt it good for us to make Detroit pay more though? Puts pressure on them to not be able to do something else farther down the line.

[daggins]

Normally i'd say yes, but a couple million is chump change for Ilitch. He will spend to win and driving Damon's price from 5 to 7 mil won't stop him from adding $ later if the Tigers need help.

[caulfield12]

If $5-7 million was mere chump change for the Tigers, who are awash (still) in bad contracts, they would have spent a heckuva lot more money on a quality SS than Adam Everett. Even though that turned out to be a good deal overall, normally they'd have gone for someone with a marquee name if they weren't also watching their spending. The Ordonez/Guillen contracts really hamper them, and Cabrera's not cheap, either.

Edited February 16, 2010 by caulfield12