Nick Johnson

Dick Allen · October 30, 2010

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 30, 2010 -> 01:36 PM)

Outside of 5 pitchers and 1 catcher....doesn't that basically describe the entire San Francisco Giants lineup?

Yet when I suggested 2nd tier free agents to improve the White Sox offense instead of trading John Danks, you ripped me for the thought.

witesoxfan · October 30, 2010

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 30, 2010 -> 02:33 PM)

Yet when I suggested 2nd tier free agents to improve the White Sox offense instead of trading John Danks, you ripped me for the thought.

Because the Giants offense is bad.

Dick Allen · October 31, 2010

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 30, 2010 -> 03:10 PM)

Because the Giants offense is bad.

But they are in the WS, and Texas picked up Vlad off the scrap heap, and they are in the WS. Pitching wins.

Buehrlesque · October 31, 2010

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 30, 2010 -> 01:01 PM)

I'm not about to spend $5.5 million on Carlos Quentin to have him face lefties when, in fact, he hits lefties worse than he does righties.

Good point, but it's not like Quentin is going to play 162 games anyway. Berkman would find plenty of at bats at DH and (back up) 1B.

Dick Allen · October 31, 2010

QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Oct 31, 2010 -> 09:31 AM)

Good point, but it's not like Quentin is going to play 162 games anyway. Berkman would find plenty of at bats at DH and (back up) 1B.

Exactly. This year when the anti-Thome people refused to ever admit there was even the slightest possiblility the Sox made a mistake by not bringing him back, one thing they pointed to was Konerko's big season and how the extra time at DH was the huge reason. He DH'd 5 more times in 2010 than 2009.

3E8 · October 31, 2010

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 30, 2010 -> 08:12 PM)

But they are in the WS, and Texas picked up Vlad off the scrap heap, and they are in the WS. Pitching wins.

I'd argue Vlad wasn't really picked up off the scrap heap, he got $6.5M guaranteed with another $900K in incentives, and $9M mutual option for 2011. Scraps don't get that much money.

And the Giants got away with that lineup playing in the NL. You need more pop to compete in the AL. Pitching wins, but you need an offense too. For the last three years, the AL leader in fewest runs allowed per game has not made the playoffs

Dick Allen · October 31, 2010

QUOTE (3E8 @ Oct 31, 2010 -> 10:48 AM)

I'd argue Vlad wasn't really picked up off the scrap heap, he got $6.5M guaranteed with another $900K in incentives, and $9M mutual option for 2011. Scraps don't get that much money.

And the Giants got away with that lineup playing in the NL. You need more pop to compete in the AL. Pitching wins, but you need an offense too. For the last three years, the AL leader in fewest runs allowed per game has not made the playoffs

I probably exaggerated a bit when I used scrap heap. The term I have been using is 2nd tier free agents.

The White Sox offense, even without a DH, was ranked in the top half of most categories in 2010. (Praise to Walker) Beckham is going to be better. Ramirez will be about the same most likely, as will Pierre. Rios probably drops off a little. I think Quentin can hit. Whoever plays first even if Paulie comes back will probably be a drop off from the 2010 Konerko. Get a DH who can produce some runs, and a 3rd baseman, because I don't think Morel is ready to hit. Add a decent catcher, if not AJ, who I think its a mistake not to re-sign, then a guy like Buck, and your offense should be pretty decent. Decent enough to win it all if Peavy comes back 100% and everyone pitches up to their capabliities. The problem is every year some will surprise and some will dissappoint. You have to keep your better players from the later.I . There is enough offense if you sign the correct 2nd tier free agents. There is no need to spend $100 million on Carl Crawford, who, while a real nice player, will never live up to the contract he signs. There is no need to make you starting rotation a gigantic question mark by trading John Danks.

I actually think the Sox are sitting pretty for 2011 with just a couple of nice moves. As bad as things seemed this year, and knowing Sept. probably doesn't play out exactly as it did if the race was closer, as bad as the Sox were against Cleveland and KC, and Detroit, if they were .500 against Minnesota, they still would have won the division. Cleveland and KC aren't good and won't be good. Detroit has a lot of holes and seems to be willing to spend money, but they still have to convince players to come to Detroit. Minnesota is due for a let down. This isn't the AL East where the immediate future would seem hopeless.

Edited October 31, 2010 by Dick Allen

Balta1701 · October 31, 2010

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 31, 2010 -> 12:20 PM)

I probably exaggerated a bit when I used scrap heap. The term I have been using is 2nd tier free agents.

The White Sox offense, even without a DH, was ranked in the top half of most categories in 2010. (Praise to Walker) Beckham is going to be better. Ramirez will be about the same most likely, as will Pierre. Rios probably drops off a little. I think Quentin can hit. Whoever plays first even if Paulie comes back will probably be a drop off from the 2010 Konerko. Get a DH who can produce some runs, and a 3rd baseman, because I don't think Morel is ready to hit. Add a decent catcher, if not AJ, who I think its a mistake not to re-sign, then a guy like Buck, and your offense should be pretty decent. Decent enough to win it all if Peavy comes back 100% and everyone pitches up to their capabliities. The problem is every year some will surprise and some will dissappoint. You have to keep your better players from the later.I . There is enough offense if you sign the correct 2nd tier free agents. There is no need to spend $100 million on Carl Crawford, who, while a real nice player, will never live up to the contract he signs. There is no need to make you starting rotation a gigantic question mark by trading John Danks.

I actually think the Sox are sitting pretty for 2011 with just a couple of nice moves. As bad as things seemed this year, and knowing Sept. probably doesn't play out exactly as it did if the race was closer, as bad as the Sox were against Cleveland and KC, and Detroit, if they were .500 against Minnesota, they still would have won the division. Cleveland and KC aren't good and won't be good. Detroit has a lot of holes and seems to be willing to spend money, but they still have to convince players to come to Detroit. Minnesota is due for a let down. This isn't the AL East where the immediate future would seem hopeless.

On principle, I actually kind of like the concept here...because it's basically tantamount to "Retrying the 2010 lineup without pretending that we don't need run production from the DH spot". If you believe, like I do, that we were at least ok in overall offense despite having Beckham, Quentin, and AJ underperforming, Konerko basically being the only starter who you can legitimately say totally overperformed, and the DH position being an absolute joke...fixing that problem and just allowing for regression to normal performance should put together a solid O.

However...there's a couple flaws. First, KW isn't going to just replay the season. That's just not his style.

Second, there's plenty of reason to expect that Konerko (and/or Rios) won't repeat their 2010 performance, so that's stuff you have to make up.

Third...we really got strong bench performance last year out of Jones and Castro, which isn't likely to be repeated.

And most importantly...the key guy we'd hope to improve, Carlos, is still as big of a question mark as you can get.

gatnom · November 1, 2010

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 31, 2010 -> 11:57 AM)

On principle, I actually kind of like the concept here...because it's basically tantamount to "Retrying the 2010 lineup without pretending that we don't need run production from the DH spot". If you believe, like I do, that we were at least ok in overall offense despite having Beckham, Quentin, and AJ underperforming, Konerko basically being the only starter who you can legitimately say totally overperformed, and the DH position being an absolute joke...fixing that problem and just allowing for regression to normal performance should put together a solid O.

However...there's a couple flaws. First, KW isn't going to just replay the season. That's just not his style.

Second, there's plenty of reason to expect that Konerko (and/or Rios) won't repeat their 2010 performance, so that's stuff you have to make up.

Third...we really got strong bench performance last year out of Jones and Castro, which isn't likely to be repeated.

And most importantly...the key guy we'd hope to improve, Carlos, is still as big of a question mark as you can get.

He also can't because he has too much money committed to too few players next season. I would agree that we would be in a great position for next year if we didn't need to replace our starting first baseman, catcher, designated hitter, closer, primary right-handed set up man, potentially our third baseman, the bench, and any remaining bullpen spots with about $15 million. The only place with any semblance of depth right now is our starting rotation, and if you actually want to get value back in a trade you need to trade Danks or Floyd. Peavy and Buehrle would be straight salary dumps, and Jackson would get you less in a trade now than what you gave up for him. I'm not saying that it's impossible to field a good team next year. It's just going to be very hard to actually improve upon our roster with so little to work with in terms of money and valuable prospects. Let's hope KW can break his slump.

Eminor3rd · November 3, 2010

Guy can't stay off the DL as a DH...

Balta1701 · November 3, 2010

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 3, 2010 -> 12:54 AM)

Guy can't stay off the DL as a DH...

Niether could Pat Burrell.

elrockinMT · November 3, 2010

Please remove this thread <_ src="%7B___base_url___%7D/uploads/emoticons/default_smilies2_nono.gif" alt=":nono">

witesoxfan · November 4, 2010

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 3, 2010 -> 07:37 AM)

Niether could Pat Burrell.

uh, Pat Burrell has atleast 437 plate appearances in every year he's played. Nick Johnson's done that 4 times in his entire career.

Balta1701 · November 4, 2010

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 3, 2010 -> 11:19 PM)

uh, Pat Burrell has atleast 437 plate appearances in every year he's played. Nick Johnson's done that 4 times in his entire career.

And the numbers he put up in Tampa...the Kotsay-like .221 average and sub .700 OPS in 2009...kinda suggest some issues don't you think?

witesoxfan · November 4, 2010

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 4, 2010 -> 07:56 AM)

And the numbers he put up in Tampa...the Kotsay-like .221 average and sub .700 OPS in 2009...kinda suggest some issues don't you think?

That he doesn't like DHing or he didn't adjust to playing in the AL.

Balta1701 · November 4, 2010

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 4, 2010 -> 10:30 AM)

That he doesn't like DHing or he didn't adjust to playing in the AL.

Or that he was suffering from a number of nagging injuries despite playing DH.

RockRaines · November 4, 2010