An outfield with Quentin in it may be slightly better offensively than one with Gardner in it, but the defensive difference is earth shattering. You are talking about swapping out one of the worst defensive OF in baseball for one of the best defensive OF in baseball. Those are opposite ends of the spectrum. We are talking a -33 UZR/150 vs. a +28 UZR/150. A difference of 61 UZR/150. There is NO bigger gap between two starters at any position than Quentin and Gardner in terms of UZR/150, and I am not even sure if there has been a larger one in the history of UZR/150.

Those 2 OFs though aren't comparing an OF with Quentin to an OF with Gardner, they're comparing an OF where Quentin is in LF to an OF where Pierre is in LF.

Pierre is overrated.

Who the heck is overrating Juan Pierre?

Who the heck is overrating Juan Pierre?

 

Me. I love the guy. Awesome skill-set.

Me. I love the guy. Awesome skill-set.

 

I didn't think anyone would jump me and Kalapse on the Pierre hate. Not only have you taken the 2nd spot away from me, but the 1st spot away from Kal in the span of a month.

Edited December 23, 201015 yr by J.Reedfan8

I didn't think anyone would jump me and Kalapse on the Pierre hate. Not only have you taken the 2nd spot away from me, but the 1st spot away from Kal in the span of a month.

 

I never liked him. I wish the search function worked so I could find threads from '06 of me mocking Cubs fans that talked him up because of his hit total. I had to accept him, obviously, because he was a member of the Sox. But watching him EVERY day took my hate to rarefied levels. I had to actually pimp him for sporting a .345 OBP at one point during the season. And if you take away all those HBPs, it was probably .330 or lower. I just can't get over the fact that the best-case scenario for a starting LF is a single. I just can't.

And if you increase that .294 BABIP to anywhere near his career total (.320), or the roughly .310 it was over the previous 4 years, that OBP would increase right along side the HBP, and he'd probably get another double or triple out of the deal too.

 

I really think people are making too big of a deal out of the HBP. If people are going to pitch Pierre inside, he's going to lean into the pitch. I guess I didn't watch the games, but I have a feeling they weren't hitting Pierre square in the back or ribs every time he went to the plate, so it was simply a matter of finding a way on base, and rather than swinging at a pitch, he understood that he needed to get on base and did whatever he could to do so.

 

Juan Pierre isn't a good player, and I am not a fan, but he's honestly not a problem. People that b**** about him are seriously just trying to find a scapegoat before the season starts. He's going to hit around .270-.300, he's going to put up an OBP around .330-.350, he's not going to hit for power, he's not going to throw me out on a single to left field after my leadoff double, and he's going to catch pretty much everything in his area. There's plenty of good and bad to go around about his game, but he is quite seriously the least of the worries.

And if you increase that .294 BABIP to anywhere near his career total (.320), or the roughly .310 it was over the previous 4 years, that OBP would increase right along side the HBP, and he'd probably get another double or triple out of the deal too.

 

I really think people are making too big of a deal out of the HBP. If people are going to pitch Pierre inside, he's going to lean into the pitch. I guess I didn't watch the games, but I have a feeling they weren't hitting Pierre square in the back or ribs every time he went to the plate, so it was simply a matter of finding a way on base, and rather than swinging at a pitch, he understood that he needed to get on base and did whatever he could to do so.

 

Juan Pierre isn't a good player, and I am not a fan, but he's honestly not a problem. People that b**** about him are seriously just trying to find a scapegoat before the season starts. He's going to hit around .270-.300, he's going to put up an OBP around .330-.350, he's not going to hit for power, he's not going to throw me out on a single to left field after my leadoff double, and he's going to catch pretty much everything in his area. There's plenty of good and bad to go around about his game, but he is quite seriously the least of the worries.

 

Pierre's OBP the last 6 years is .335. An increase in BABIP will not change anything because he doesn't walk. And the HBP total was a complete fluke. We're not talking Craig Biggio here. JP had more HBPs last year than the previous 4 years combined. A .330/.335 OBP is his absolute ceiling.

Edited December 24, 201015 yr by Jordan4life

Pierre's OBP the last 6 years is .335. An increase in BABIP will not change anything because he doesn't walk. And the HBP total was a complete fluke. We're not talking Craig Biggio here. JP had more HBPs last year than the previous 4 years combined. A .330/.335 OBP is his absolute ceiling.

His career OBP is .347 and it's been .330 or above every year since 2005 (when it was .327). His OBP the last 5 years is .337, and .344 the last 3 years. It's very odd to take a number lower than his OBP last year, lower than the last 3 years, and call that his absolute ceiling.

His career OBP is .347 and it's been .330 or above every year since 2005 (when it was .327). His OBP the last 5 years is .337, and .344 the last 3 years. It's very odd to take a number lower than his OBP last year, lower than the last 3 years, and call that his absolute ceiling.

 

His only above average OBP since 2004 was 2009. He wasn't a full-time player then. And last year was an anomaly due to the ab-normal HBP total. I'd definitely say .335 is his ceiling. Unless he gets hit 20+ times again next year.

Juan Pierre isn't a good player, and I am not a fan, but he's honestly not a problem. People that b**** about him are seriously just trying to find a scapegoat before the season starts. He's going to hit around .270-.300, he's going to put up an OBP around .330-.350, he's not going to hit for power, he's not going to throw me out on a single to left field after my leadoff double, and he's going to catch pretty much everything in his area. There's plenty of good and bad to go around about his game, but he is quite seriously the least of the worries.

 

Reading your post makes it sound as if Pierre is quite a problem. Sounds like a lousy ballplayer.

 

 

And if you increase that .294 BABIP to anywhere near his career total (.320), or the roughly .310 it was over the previous 4 years, that OBP would increase right along side the HBP, and he'd probably get another double or triple out of the deal too.

 

I really think people are making too big of a deal out of the HBP. If people are going to pitch Pierre inside, he's going to lean into the pitch. I guess I didn't watch the games, but I have a feeling they weren't hitting Pierre square in the back or ribs every time he went to the plate, so it was simply a matter of finding a way on base, and rather than swinging at a pitch, he understood that he needed to get on base and did whatever he could to do so.

 

Juan Pierre isn't a good player, and I am not a fan, but he's honestly not a problem. People that b**** about him are seriously just trying to find a scapegoat before the season starts. He's going to hit around .270-.300, he's going to put up an OBP around .330-.350, he's not going to hit for power, he's not going to throw me out on a single to left field after my leadoff double, and he's going to catch pretty much everything in his area. There's plenty of good and bad to go around about his game, but he is quite seriously the least of the worries.

 

 

Hmm. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Yahoo Sports MLB Power Rankings from December 23

 

14. Chicago White Sox (88-74; Previous: 12) – Manager Ozzie Guillen was surprised to hear the White Sox offered to trade him to Florida. But, you know, you can’t trade the whole team. GM Kenny Williams knows. He’s tried.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-powerrankings122310

 

So we add Dunn and drop?? And the Twins are fifth despite no Pavano and no bullepn? Too much eggnog from the writer?

Yahoo Sports MLB Power Rankings from December 23

 

 

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-powerrankings122310

 

So we add Dunn and drop?? And the Twins are fifth despite no Pavano and no bullepn? Too much eggnog from the writer?

 

I'd have to imagine Peavy's health and a questionable although talented bullpen are the main reasons.

Kinda funny, cause I know everyone hates ESPN, but they pretty much had us top 5 in their power rankings at the winter meetings.

Yahoo Sports MLB Power Rankings from December 23

 

 

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-powerrankings122310

 

So we add Dunn and drop?? And the Twins are fifth despite no Pavano and no bullepn? Too much eggnog from the writer?

 

I think Oakland being 8th is more out of place.

I never liked him. I wish the search function worked so I could find threads from '06 of me mocking Cubs fans that talked him up because of his hit total. I had to accept him, obviously, because he was a member of the Sox. But watching him EVERY day took my hate to rarefied levels. I had to actually pimp him for sporting a .345 OBP at one point during the season. And if you take away all those HBPs, it was probably .330 or lower. I just can't get over the fact that the best-case scenario for a starting LF is a single. I just can't.

 

Singles are sexy!!!

Yahoo Sports MLB Power Rankings from December 23

 

 

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-powerrankings122310

 

So we add Dunn and drop?? And the Twins are fifth despite no Pavano and no bullepn? Too much eggnog from the writer?

 

Lol, they lost....

 

Pavano, Guerrier, Crain, Thome, Hardy, Harris, Cabrera, and Punto, right? And the only person they've added is some Japanese SS, right?

I think Oakland being 8th is more out of place.

The A's had the best pitching staff in the AL last year. That's a good starting point.

The A's had the best pitching staff in the AL last year. That's a good starting point.

 

Yeah, and maybe the worst offense in baseball.

Yeah, and maybe the worst offense in baseball.

To which they've added DeJesus, Willingham, and Hideki Matsui, in addition to getting Crisp back to start the year.

To which they've added DeJesus, Willingham, and Hideki Matsui, in addition to getting Crisp back to start the year.

 

Still wouldn't even put them in the top 15.

Still wouldn't even put them in the top 15.

Add in some development from one of their 1b types and it could.

 

That said...you don't need to be in the top 10 to win a division if you're #1 in pitching.

Still wouldn't even put them in the top 15.

 

Agreed, not to mention they lost Jack Cust which is quite a bit of OBP there as well. I still like their team pitching though, especially in that park.

Edited December 24, 201015 yr by J.Reedfan8

Yeah, and maybe the worst offense in baseball.

You can't even say maybe with the historically bad year the Mariners had.

Agreed, not to mention they lost Jack Cust which is quite a bit of OBP there as well. I still like their team pitching though, especially in that park.

 

Huh? Maybe they'll miss Cust's power. But Willingham, DeJesus and Matsui sported OBPs of .389, .384 and .361 respectively last year. They're fine in that department.