OBAMA/TRUMPCARE MEGATHREAD

[maxjusttyped]

Things can change, but Collins and Murkowski both looking like no's. McConell can't lose any other GOP senator if AHCA is to pass.

 

https://twitter.com/TopherSpiro/status/875462645662351360

[StrangeSox]

McConnell is considering a trick in the Senate that would allow for as little as 2-4 hours of debate after the first time the text of the bill is made public. 2-4 hours for a bill that substantially impacts 1/6 of the economy and strips health insurance from millions.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/ASlavitt/status/...src=twsrc%5Etfw

[StrangeSox]

Trumpcare will impose annual, lifetime caps on tens of millions of employer based plans. Nobody escapes pain in the quest for wealthy tax cuts.

 

https://twitter.com/TopherSpiro/status/8753...src=twsrc%5Etfw

[caulfield12]

Trumpcare will impose annual, lifetime caps on tens of millions of employer based plans. Nobody escapes pain in the quest for wealthy tax cuts.

 

https://twitter.com/TopherSpiro/status/8753...src=twsrc%5Etfw

 

Of course, 98% conveniently won't experience those effects until after 2020...

 

 

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/govt-report-...--politics.html

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump promised to make health care more affordable but a government report finds that out-of-pocket costs — deductibles and copayments — would average 61 percent higher under the House Republican bill.

 

And even though the sticker price for premiums would be lower than under the Obama-era law, what consumers actually pay would edge up on average because government financial assistance would be curtailed.

 

The report from the Office of the Actuary, a nonpartisan economic unit at the Health and Human Services Department, was released earlier this week with little fanfare.

 

"It's fascinating," said Chris Sloan, a policy expert with the Avalere Health consulting firm. "They actually think that on average people will be paying more even though the underlying premium is less."

 

The estimates are for the year 2026, and apply to people who buy their own health insurance policies. That group was a major focus of former President Barack Obama's Affordable Care Act. Individually-purchased coverage is also key to the GOP's American Health Care Act, which would roll back much of "Obamacare."

Edited June 16, 2017 by caulfield12

[StrangeSox]

We asked 8 Senate Republicans to explain what their health bill is trying to do

 

Tara Golshan, Vox

Generally, what are the big problems this bill is trying to solve?

 

John McCain

Almost all of them. They’re trying to get to 51 votes.

 

Tara Golshan

Policy-wise. What are the problems in the American health care system this is trying to solve — and is the bill doing that right now?

 

John McCain

Well, it's whether you have full repeal, whether you have partial repeal, whether you have the basis of it. It's spread all over.

 

Tara Golshan

But based on the specifics of the bill you have heard so far, is it solving the problems in the health care system?

 

John McCain

What I hear is that we have not reached consensus. That’s what everybody knows.

 

Tara Golshan

Right, but outside of getting the votes. From what you hear of the actual legislation being written is it solving the problems you see —

 

John McCain

It's not being written. Because there's no consensus.

 

Tara Golshan

But generally speaking, what are the big problems it is trying to solve?

 

John McCain

You name it. Everything from the Repeal caucus, which as you know they have made their views very clear — Rand Paul, etc. And then there are the others on the other side of the spectrum that just want to make minor changes to the present system. There’s not consensus.

 

Jeff Stein, Vox

I want to ask a very broad question: What do you think this health care bill will accomplish that will improve America? What's the positive case for this bill?

 

Chuck Grassley

Well, I can tell you what it's going to do for Iowa. We are one of those states that in a couple of weeks if [the insurer] Medica pulls out we'll have 94 of our 95 counties won't have any insurance even for people who have the subsidies. That's what we have to concentrate on now.

 

Jeff Stein

How do you think the bill will fix that problem?

 

Chuck Grassley

Well, by bringing certainty to the insurance market. They don't have that certainty now.

 

Jeff Stein

By bringing certainty to the insurance market. What certainty?

 

Chuck Grassley

What?

 

Jeff Stein

What do you mean by certainty?

 

Chuck Grassley

Well, they can't even file. They have to check the rates real high if they don't know what the government policy is. And so the certainty is that passing a bill gives the health insurance companies certainty.

 

Jeff Stein

Wouldn't not passing a bill also do that?

 

Chuck Grassley

No, it. Well, yeah — it gives them certainty that you'll have a lot higher rates than if you pass the bill.

 

Jeff Stein

So you're saying [the bill] will lower the rates?

 

Chuck Grassley

Um, if you're talking about lowering the rates from now down, no. The rates could be way up here. [Points to sky] And if they — if we get a bill passed, it maybe wouldn't go up or would go up a heck of a lot less than they would without a bill.

 

Jeff Stein

By "rates," are you talking about premiums?

 

Chuck Grassley

Yeah, premiums. … I'm sorry I have to go.

 

(the real goal of the bill is giving tax cuts to millionaires so they can buy a bigger boat, any impact on healthcare policy is largely incidental)

[Texsox]

We asked 8 Senate Republicans to explain what their health bill is trying to do

 

 

 

 

 

(the real goal of the bill is giving tax cuts to millionaires so they can buy a bigger boat, any impact on healthcare policy is largely incidental)

Which means more jobs for people working building boats, operating marinas, serving as crew members, etc.

[StrangeSox]

Workforce Week strikes again!

[GoSox05]

"Sir, we have cut you off of chemo treatment as you have reached your insurance lifetime limit. Good news though, there are some boats that need cleaning. That should help you pay the 300,000 health insurance bills!"

 

[Dick Allen]

"Sir, we have cut you off of chemo treatment as you have reached your insurance lifetime limit. Good news though, there are some boats that need cleaning. That should help you pay the 300,000 health insurance bills!"

Cheaper, better care for everyone. Trump keeping his promises.

[bmags]

We asked 8 Senate Republicans to explain what their health bill is trying to do

 

 

 

 

 

(the real goal of the bill is giving tax cuts to millionaires so they can buy a bigger boat, any impact on healthcare policy is largely incidental)

 

It's so ridiculous that they are talking about this bill as 100% a political issue, and not a healthcare one.

[StrangeSox]

They don't care. The GOP has never cared about trying to solve healthcare problems. It's an excuse for an $800B tax cut for the wealthy that will let them cut even more taxes for the wealthy when they get around to tax "reform."

[illinilaw08]

It's so ridiculous that they are talking about this bill as 100% a political issue, and not a healthcare one.

 

There were some real responses to the questions in there. Murkowski came across as intelligent and informed, for one. So did Portman. The problem is that there's no way politically for the Republicans to alter health care to both increase access and decrease cost if they use the House bill as any part of a framework.

[StrangeSox]

I'd buy any of their hand-wringing about policy concerns if these same GOP Senators were loudly denouncing McConnell's tactics of writing this bill entirely in secret and holding zero public hearings on it on the way to rushing it to a vote as quickly as possible, potentially as short as 2-4 hours after the text of the bill is made public.

 

e: and don't forget that the "obamacare collapsing!" rhetoric is 1) largely bulls*** and 2) largely of the GOP's making

 

So why are we reading all these stories about insurers pulling out of markets and premiums going way up? Oliver Wyman, an actuarial firm, examines the markets and concludes that at least two-thirds of the higher premiums next year are due to political uncertainty created by the Trump administration and Congress. The administration is threatening to withhold payments insurers are owed under the law, and also not to enforce the individual mandate. These deliberate efforts to subvert the exchanges are having their intended effect. But the underlying expected cost of insuring patients is low — without a government engaged in deliberate sabotage, the firm estimates premiums would only rise 5–8 percent, a very modest level by the historic standards of health insurance costs.

Edited June 16, 2017 by StrangeSox

[caulfield12]

We asked 8 Senate Republicans to explain what their health bill is trying to do

 

 

 

 

 

(the real goal of the bill is giving tax cuts to millionaires so they can buy a bigger boat, any impact on healthcare policy is largely incidental)

 

 

Grassley always finds new ways to embarrass Iowa...need new blood in there.

[bmags]

There were some real responses to the questions in there. Murkowski came across as intelligent and informed, for one. So did Portman. The problem is that there's no way politically for the Republicans to alter health care to both increase access and decrease cost if they use the House bill as any part of a framework.

 

Well she has to, the current bill is squeezing Alaska even though it's favorable to it in terms of smoothing their costs. They will be crushed because of the expenses of health care in Alaska and their population unless they specifically carve out Alaska exceptions.

[StrangeSox]

The Klondike Kickback!

 

e: it's like the GOP has taken every single thing they complained about with how the ACA was passed and ramped it up 10 fold.

Edited June 16, 2017 by StrangeSox

[StrangeSox]

 

cowards

[Texsox]

"Sir, we have cut you off of chemo treatment as you have reached your insurance lifetime limit. Good news though, there are some boats that need cleaning. That should help you pay the 300,000 health insurance bills!"

 

Sorry you can't buy that boat, someone you don't know engaged in a risky lifestyle and now *you* are required to pay for their healthcare.

 

Thank you for working so hard. Would you mind picking up a couple extra shifts? Did you see the guy you passed on the street? He's abusing drugs and going to need a transplant and someone has to pay for it.

 

I can play the ridiculous example game.

[Texsox]

 

cowards

 

Didn't trump pledge to stop the lobbyists and special interest groups?

[StrangeSox]

Sorry you can't buy that boat, someone you don't know engaged in a risky lifestyle and now *you* are required to pay for their healthcare.

 

Thank you for working so hard. Would you mind picking up a couple extra shifts? Did you see the guy you passed on the street? He's abusing drugs and going to need a transplant and someone has to pay for it.

 

I can play the ridiculous example game.

 

The ~risky lifestyle~ of being born with a genetic predisposition towards an illness or just catching something or being in an accident. If you're sick, you must have done something to deserve it?

 

Come on, tex. You're not really defending a nearly $1T tax cut for the wealthy in the face of letting people suffer and die from lack of health care access, are you?

 

Didn't trump pledge to stop the lobbyists and special interest groups?

 

Mitch McConnell is not Trump, and involving zero actual health care experts or knowledgeable people in the secret crafting of a bill that impacts every American and 1/6th of the economy is horrendous.

[Texsox]

The ~risky lifestyle~ of being born with a genetic predisposition towards an illness or just catching something or being in an accident. If you're sick, you must have done something to deserve it?

 

Come on, tex. You're not really defending a nearly $1T tax cut for the wealthy in the face of letting people suffer and die from lack of health care access, are you?

 

 

 

Mitch McConnell is not Trump, and involving zero actual health care experts or knowledgeable people in the secret crafting of a bill that impacts every American and 1/6th of the economy is horrendous.

 

I object to the we're just going to tax that income if you are going to do X with it logic.

 

I'm pointing out that allowing people to spend the money they have earned benefits society as well. We mock someone buying something beyond the necessities, but those contribute as well. When politicians decided that luxury taxes were an easy thing to tax, a number of industries were decimated. Most of those luxury boats were made in the US until we taxed them and their customers out of business. I see a slippery slope. Once we start deciding what a person can and cannot do with their money the taxing game changes. If you can buy a $100,000 car we can tax you more becomes a $75,000 car, then a $25,000 car.

 

And what we really are talking about is which wealthy business owners get to keep their cash, the health industry rich or the other rich folks.

[BigSqwert]

Come on, tex. You're not really defending a nearly $1T tax cut for the wealthy in the face of letting people suffer and die from lack of health care access, are you?

 

I chalk it up to the water in Texas which includes a 'pull up by your bootstraps' additive.

[Texsox]

I chalk it up to the water in Texas which includes a 'pull up by your bootstraps' additive.

 

I've been reconsidering the link between taxes and jobs. What we really need are jobs that pay a livable wage and allow people to naturally pay for things like health care. Perhaps one reason we have so many people unable to afford the necessities is so much income is rolling into the government instead of being spent by you and me.

 

So money to buy the cheap imported stuff at WalMart doesn't get taxed. Money to buy the more expensive US made product gets taxed to the point we have to buy the cheaper imports.

 

Looking specifically at luxury ships, the US was a leader, now it is the Netherlands. I can only think of one real world class player in the market somewhere in Oregon or Washington, I forget now. IIRC they were originally in California but where taxed out of there. One reason so few are made in the US is we don't buy many anymore.

[illinilaw08]

 

I've been reconsidering the link between taxes and jobs. What we really need are jobs that pay a livable wage and allow people to naturally pay for things like health care. Perhaps one reason we have so many people unable to afford the necessities is so much income is rolling into the government instead of being spent by you and me.

 

So money to buy the cheap imported stuff at WalMart doesn't get taxed. Money to buy the more expensive US made product gets taxed to the point we have to buy the cheaper imports.

 

Looking specifically at luxury ships, the US was a leader, now it is the Netherlands. I can only think of one real world class player in the market somewhere in Oregon or Washington, I forget now. IIRC they were originally in California but where taxed out of there. One reason so few are made in the US is we don't buy many anymore.

 

Health care is unique though. If the government isn't involved in health care, and I contract skin cancer (which I have a genetic pre-disposition to contract!), then it doesn't ultimately matter what livable wage I'm earning. The amount of health care that I will have to consume, and the cost of that health care will ravage my finances.

 

I agree with you beyond that point - that getting more companies to pay a livable wage - and a true livable wage provides value. But what evidence do we have that lower taxes on businesses leads to increased gains for labor? Isn't it more likely that those gains are passed on to shareholders? Absent, of course, the feds significantly increasing the minimum wage...

[LittleHurt05]

Anthem pulled out of the Ohio marketplace leaving numerous counties with zero options. It's very telling the damage Obama Care did that there was only option to begin with. Now Trump Care is gonna put the nail on the coffin. Both sides combined to make health care even way worse than it was.