Kind of funny you disagreed with me on this. It's humorously ironic on any number of levels. I trust that the guy heard any number of things, had a good feel as to who was using and who wasn't, but generally think the guy wrote the book and mentioned the names for a reason - that being money. So someone gave him money to STFU about him not using steroids? Does that surprise you? It doesn't surprise me in the least. Roger Clemens made $150 mill playing baseball, and that's not including any endorsement or side projects he took part in. Him parting with $10K (based entirely upon his MLB compensation) is roughly the same as a middle-upper class American giving $100-$500, and an upper class American $1,000. Canseco could use every single bit of it.

 

It doesn't particularly surprise me that he mentioned 9 names and George Mitchell mentioned 80 more. One did it for money, one did it for justice.

 

Bottomline, Canseco IS a whore. You'd be hard-pressed to find anybody who disagrees with that, even Balta.

 

---

 

Oh, and without knowing the levels at which Manny took steroids and any other PEDs, it's generally impossible to know what type of player he could have been. I don't know that Sammy Sosa was ever implicated on steroid use, but, unless he came out and admitted he used and when he started, it's impossible to know what type of player he was with and without steroids. Scouting reports suggested he had monstrous power ability and that he was a potential 30/30 threat when he was with the Sox, and he was not with the Sox long [baseball Digest, ca. 1992]. He was damn near a 40/40 player with the Cubs and was a 30/30 player twice with them before '98. At some point, natural talent DOES come into effect. You can be hyperbolic and say "because (said player) used steroids, they are just as likely to be a minor leaguer then they are a potential hall of famer." That seems to be the Bud Fox argument, and I simply can't agree with that. If a player is terrible, steroids make him bad; if he is bad, they make him not bad; if he is not bad, they make him mediocre; if he is mediocre, they make him OK..." Until we have proof otherwise, we can't make a fair assumption, so anybody MAKING assumptions is incredibly and inevitably wrong.

 

The safest bet of all is to say "we do not know how good these players are or were without performance enhancing drugs, and we never will; thus, not only due to ethical reasoning, but general lack of perspective and knowledge, we cannot elect these players into the Hall of Fame, even considering their contributions to the game."

 

The guy from Wall Street?

I know that bag of money dropped in the Toronto airport raised a lot of eyebrows

 

As did any number of other things. The guy speaks English all of his life, yet when in court, testifying against the allegations of steroid use (in which one person denied it and later tested positive and another plead the 5th and then later acknowledged use of it) can't understand it? Nevermind the fact that, as I recall, verbally committed to taking a urine test only to back out once said urine test was provided to him in a general interview.

 

Sammy is and was guilty as f***.

 

My issue with this is how do you decide who was a steroid user and who wasn't? Did they guy have to be caught by baseball? Or implicated criminally? Or can you just do the eye test?

 

It seems obvious that Sammy was a juicer, but he has never been really implicated in a case. How about a guy like Mike Piazza? People have him listed as a guaranteed Hall of Famer, but IMO he's just as obvious of a roider as the rest of them. There are some allegations out there, but nothing substantial. Why should he get in, because he didn't get caught?

 

That's where coming out for some of these players is going to come in handy. I think Andy Pettitte has a better chance at the Hall of Fame, with much, much, much far inferior numbers to that of Roger Clemens, simply because he said "yeah, I tried it, didn't like it, and moved on."

 

Piazza is a pretty poor example (ROY, probably the greatest hitting catcher of all time, did it his entire career even amidst sexual orientation rumors later on), but I get what you're getting at. At that point, it's subjective to the voters, but I think there is a general feel, amongst those who are actually Hall of Fame worthy, who did and who did not use steroids.

 

The better question is to what level you rank amphetamine use. Illegal now, illegal legally always, but still prevalent as hell for a good long while. I don't think Frank says he's innocent, nor do I think any number of current hall of famers. We can draw lines anywhere we want, but the decision comes to them.

 

Piazza gets in. Sosa won't. Thomas will. Thome will. Griffey will.

 

Bonds will take a while.

 

The guy from Wall Street?

 

#WINNING

 

Yes. As if some small perk is going to take some general nobody to a monstrosity of a big shot. I don't think steroids work that way, but I might be wrong.

As did any number of other things. The guy speaks English all of his life, yet when in court, testifying against the allegations of steroid use (in which one person denied it and later tested positive and another plead the 5th and then later acknowledged use of it) can't understand it? Nevermind the fact that, as I recall, verbally committed to taking a urine test only to back out once said urine test was provided to him in a general interview.

 

Sammy is and was guilty as f***.

 

 

 

That's where coming out for some of these players is going to come in handy. I think Andy Pettitte has a better chance at the Hall of Fame, with much, much, much far inferior numbers to that of Roger Clemens, simply because he said "yeah, I tried it, didn't like it, and moved on."

 

Piazza is a pretty poor example (ROY, probably the greatest hitting catcher of all time, did it his entire career even amidst sexual orientation rumors later on), but I get what you're getting at. At that point, it's subjective to the voters, but I think there is a general feel, amongst those who are actually Hall of Fame worthy, who did and who did not use steroids.

 

The better question is to what level you rank amphetamine use. Illegal now, illegal legally always, but still prevalent as hell for a good long while. I don't think Frank says he's innocent, nor do I think any number of current hall of famers. We can draw lines anywhere we want, but the decision comes to them.

 

Piazza gets in. Sosa won't. Thomas will. Thome will. Griffey will.

 

Bonds will take a while.

 

 

 

#WINNING

 

Yes. As if some small perk is going to take some general nobody to a monstrosity of a big shot. I don't think steroids work that way, but I might be wrong.

 

Ah, I didn't get why you brought him up at first. And I agree with your assessment of who will get into the Hall.

Edited November 12, 201114 yr by Milkman delivers

Manroid signs with the A's

Really, there is a job for Manny in MLB!? Wow. I am really beginning to dislike this season.

Really, there is a job for Manny in MLB!? Wow. I am really beginning to dislike this season.

 

Just a minor league deal. So there is still hope he never sees the MLB again.

funnyball

Really, there is a job for Manny in MLB!? Wow. I am really beginning to dislike this season.

but there wasn't for Jermaine Dye... stupid.

but there wasn't for Jermaine Dye... stupid.

There was, he just didn't want to take only what, $3 million for 1 year from the Nats.

For some reason Manny strikes me as content with being on an MLB roster and getting a check. He would probably pitch if they asked him to. Dye wouldn't even give up his glove.

 

"That's pride f***ing with you. f*** pride"

 

 

"We're baaack."

 

Ramirez, as he and Damon, former Red Sox teammates, took their seats.

 

"Let's do this — you play 100 and I'll play 62."

 

Ramirez, to Damon when they were asked about playing all 162 games. Days later Ramirez retired, failing to play 62.

 

"Thank you Johnny, they don't know."

 

Ramirez to Damon, after Damon said he's "always been a great teammate, a guy who knows how to win." Ramirez abruptly retired days later.

 

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/baseball/ra...amon-as/1148987

Edited February 21, 201214 yr by Swingandalongonetoleft

I find it extremely amusing to hear them say "ex-White Sox Manny Ramirez".

So if anyone wondered what the Sox were doing this off-season, they have got to be beating their heads on a wall over the A's.

Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN

The most money the Athletics will pay Manny Ramirez, in the end, is $330,000. There is zero risk, zero downside. If he stinks, they cut him.

Brett Anderson ‏ @BrettAnderson49

Manny just asked if I was the video coordinator...our relationship can only go up from here.

DKnobler ‏ @DKnobler

Our @ScottMCBS asked Manny Ramirez if he's going to test positive again. "Only God knows," Manny said.

Manroid asks for, receives release from A's.

Manroid asks for, receives release from A's.

 

Can he play 3b?

Jon Morosi ‏@jonmorosi

 

Manny Ramirez has 4 HR during Dominican Winter League postseason and wants to continue MLB career, according to agent Barry Praver.

Jon Morosi ‏@jonmorosi

 

Manny Ramirez has 4 HR during Dominican Winter League postseason and wants to continue MLB career, according to agent Barry Praver.

 

 

Can he play 3b?

I was at staples over the weekend for the Clippers game and saw a Mannywood billboard (not sure why it hasn't been taken down)....brought me back. Manny was one of my all time favs.

Jon Morosi ‏@jonmorosi

 

Manny Ramirez has 4 HR during Dominican Winter League postseason and wants to continue MLB career, according to agent Barry Praver.

He must be juicing again.