flippedoutpunk Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 13, 2011 -> 04:49 PM) You guys should both stop, most of us don't give a s*** about message board credibility attacks from one thread to another. only one way to settle this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 How long before we start hearing that KW is interested in promoting Petricka to help the bullpen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Talk about desperation: http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/res/2323522256.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty22hotty Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Jenks had 4 BS all of last year... KW did a horrible job building this bullpen in the off season whats amazing is that the sox could be 11-1 if they had a real closer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Apr 13, 2011 -> 04:51 PM) That doesn't negate my argument or support yours. Frankly it's irrelevant. If this is the case how can you not see how it's more logical to TRY Crain (or Santos) who are the ONLY guys who have looked good recently instead of everyone else in the pen who essentially can't pitch at ALL right now? I'm befuddled. Again, "assumption" based on facts is credible. "Assumption" based on absolutely nothing (your position for the most part) is not. Again, this isn't rocket science; it's basic logic. Again, which of my opinions are you even basing any of this on? I do NOT want Sale OR Thornton to close. I've said as much in numerous previous game threads...so what exact opinion of mine are you even basing this on? Because at this point, I don't even know...and neither do you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigHurt Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 jesse crain has been an average pitcher throughout his career. hes had a year or two where hes been slightly better than average, and a year or two where hes been slightly worse. He is what he is...a 7th inning guy. Nothing more I believe Santos is the best choice. However, in my view and again according to recent history I would see nothing wrong with TRYING Crain from the get-go of the 9th inning for this game. I'm not gonna second guess the LOGICAL decision because the decision that was actually MADE didn't work out... it defies sensibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Apr 13, 2011 -> 10:47 PM) I'm not deleting anything. If they ban me, they ban me. But nobody's going to insult my credibility here without a direct and harsh response...especially the one that tried. That's what I said last year as well and I still got penalized. Your post may be word for word the same as mine. I'm calmer now, partly because I don't care if they fire Ozz or not. This team is too dysfunctional to get worked up about. We never have a clean win it seems like. Always some bizarre drama or implosion ... well not always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapzk Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Apr 13, 2011 -> 05:44 PM) Again, you ASSUME that Santos and Crain will be better. They may be, and I'm all for removing Thornton, but that doesn't change the fact that you are basing this on an assumption. Because they can pitch in the 8th, they can close. Well, they assumed that about Thornton, too...and that assumption turned out to be wrong. See how these are ALL assumptions? That doesn't make your opinion on this inept, it just makes it what it is. And no, it doesn't make your assumption more credible than mine. I've been saying for days that I don't want Thornton closing. Your right that its all assumption where we think that Sergio may succeed based on his 7th/8th inning role... but the way sergio has been throwing the ball there is no obvious reasons to why he would falter. Thornton on the other hand if some of you may have noticed wasnt really that great in spring training either and the velocity drop to about 95 was apparent. Matt is just pitching poorly right now it has nothing to do with 8th or 9th inning he just flat out sucks at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 QUOTE (daa84 @ Apr 13, 2011 -> 04:51 PM) jesse crain has been an average pitcher throughout his career. hes had a year or two where hes been slightly better than average, and a year or two where hes been slightly worse. He is what he is...a 7th inning guy. Nothing more Because he couldn't possibly be worse than what we're using now...that's the only thing I'm really basing it on...he may be just as bad, but at least try it. Santos may be the only one we have in the pen that we can trust right now, so I'm trying to save him for an emergency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigHurt Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Again, which of my opinions are you even basing any of this on? I do NOT want Sale OR Thornton to close. I've said as much in numerous previous game threads...so what exact opinion of mine are you even basing this on? Because at this point, I don't even know...and neither do you. The idea is that you've said over and over that since so-and-so gave up a hit/run at the time they were put in that it "doesn't matter" that they weren't put in sooner because everyone would b****... therefore that means you're assuming the same exact thing would have happened, otherwise you need to start wording your posts better. You can't claim to know how a situation would have turned out had something different be done. I am not ready to believe that you actually think something that ludicrous because your posts so far represent that exact mindset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Maybe Bob James is available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Apr 13, 2011 -> 04:56 PM) The idea is that you've said over and over that since so-and-so gave up a hit/run at the time they were put in that it "doesn't matter" that they weren't put in sooner because everyone would b****... therefore that means you're assuming the same exact thing would have happened, otherwise you need to start wording your posts better. You can't claim to know how a situation would have turned out had something different be done. I am not ready to believe that you actually think something that ludicrous because your posts so far represent that exact mindset. See, you took this out of context, and thus the blow up you caused here. What I meant, and how I meant it wasn't literal but cynical/pessimistically...the way this pen is performing right now, it wouldn't matter who he picked in what situation...in the 9th, they're going to blow it...somehow, someway. That's a more elaborate way to say what I said earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 WHAT THE f***? I turned off the game at 3:30 and they were up 4-1. DAMMIT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigHurt Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 (edited) See, you took this out of context, and thus the blow up you caused here. What I meant, and how I meant it wasn't literal but cynical/pessimistically...the way this pen is performing right now, it wouldn't matter who he picked in what situation...in the 9th, they're going to blow it...somehow, someway. That's a more elaborate way to say what I said earlier. And I'm saying it WOULD have because Crain and especially Santos have been solid. It WOULD have mattered. Again if they would have failed, so be it. But logically Ozzie should have gone with one of the two, it's just that simple. You consistently seem to think that when uncertainty is present but one way looks WAY more safer than another... you somehow SHOULDN'T go with it... which is purely and simply illogical. Edited April 13, 2011 by TheBigHurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Our relievers besides Santos and Crain have given up the same amount of runs as our starters have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 QUOTE (knightni @ Apr 13, 2011 -> 05:59 PM) WHAT THE f***? I turned off the game at 3:30 and they were up 4-1. DAMMIT! Ahh, so it's YOUR fault. You're fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Apr 13, 2011 -> 05:01 PM) And I'm saying it WOULD have because Crain and especially Santos have been solid. It WOULD have mattered. Again if they would have failed, so be it. But logically Ozzie should have gone with one of the two, it's just that simple. Well, I agree with this, and would have agreed with it from the start. You took what I said in a context in which I didn't mean it...then insulted me as totally inept. So yes, you got an immature response to an immature attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 New White Sox closer, Lori Moreland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapzk Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 I think there is way too much panic here ... I look at it as a good thing that we have blown these games early so that we can actually iron out the pen and put the guys in the correct places. I know it sucks to lose these games especially in this manner, but i think it may help in the long run of the season. What we have learned is that Thornton sucks right now, so we yank him out of the closers role and put Santos in. This may be a great thing in the long overhaul of the season. Only time will tell how Santos will perform. But again its only April 13th, ton of baseball left to play, and heck we are 7-5 while Detroit and Minnesota are atleast 2.5 games behind us at the moment. On the downside however we have a tough schedule coming up, with the Angels top pitchers up against us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 QUOTE (kapzk @ Apr 13, 2011 -> 11:03 PM) I think there is way too much panic here ... I look at it as a good thing that we have blown these games early so that we can actually iron out the pen and put the guys in the correct places. I know it sucks to lose these games especially in this manner, but i think it may help in the long run of the season. What we have learned is that Thornton sucks right now, so we yank him out of the closers role and put Santos in. This may be a great thing in the long overhaul of the season. Only time will tell how Santos will perform. But again its only April 13th, ton of baseball left to play, and heck we are 7-5 while Detroit and Minnesota are atleast 2.5 games behind us at the moment. On the downside however we have a tough schedule coming up, with the Angels top pitchers up against us. There is nothing positive about Thornton's struggles. If Sale can't be an impact reliever, then we're totally wasting a year of development of his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigHurt Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Well, I agree with this, and would have agreed with it from the start. You took what I said in a context in which I didn't mean it...then insulted me as totally inept. So yes, you got an immature response to an immature attack. Well... I SAID it from the start, sir... lol. And what I said about you was simply based on what you said. Out of context or not, to say that something would have happened the same way had the procedure been differently is foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigHurt Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 BTW I can't wait to see the replay of that Rant Ozzie went on. And he was correct... even though a lot of the issues are possibly due to his clueless managing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 QUOTE (kapzk @ Apr 13, 2011 -> 05:03 PM) I think there is way too much panic here ... I look at it as a good thing that we have blown these games early so that we can actually iron out the pen and put the guys in the correct places. I know it sucks to lose these games especially in this manner, but i think it may help in the long run of the season. What we have learned is that Thornton sucks right now, so we yank him out of the closers role and put Santos in. This may be a great thing in the long overhaul of the season. Only time will tell how Santos will perform. But again its only April 13th, ton of baseball left to play, and heck we are 7-5 while Detroit and Minnesota are atleast 2.5 games behind us at the moment. On the downside however we have a tough schedule coming up, with the Angels top pitchers up against us. this is a pretty good post. the fact is we are still playing good baseball, which is a good sign long term. Anyone who watches baseball regularly knows how volatile modern bullpens are. the fact of that matter is that the bullpen WILL be better (almost by definition). Looking back, if you told me we would start the year 7-5 and should have really been 9-3 or 10-2, I would have been very content. even with the bullpen as currently constructed, I still think this is a team that will contend for hte division, whereas april 1, I wasnt entirely sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapzk Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 13, 2011 -> 06:05 PM) There is nothing positive about Thornton's struggles. If Sale can't be an impact reliever, then we're totally wasting a year of development of his. Matt is just struggling with his command, this can be fixed, atleast he isnt hurt. MT is too good of a pitcher to not turn it around. Not too concerned with fastball velocity (Fangraphs shows his fastball avg 96.1 mph, while this season hes at 95.6 which is just right around his career avg). Its just a matter of commanding the ball, pretty much what Ohman was going through early on in the season. He just needs to keep his head high, and one to fix it atleast to remove the pressure off of him by removing him from the closer's role. Not too concerned at, this is the game of baseball, s*** like this happens, things will turn around for the bullpen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 13, 2011 -> 05:05 PM) There is nothing positive about Thornton's struggles. If Sale can't be an impact reliever, then we're totally wasting a year of development of his. So wait. What leads you to believe he can get hitters out starting if he can't pitching the 9th inning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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