Just curious on the current barometer in this forum for coaching changes.

 

Ozzie/Walker gone, make Cooper interim manager

I wouldn't fire anyone during the season, because I don't think it will do anything.

 

If they don't make the playoffs, I'd fire Kenny or hope he steps down.

 

Then I'd hire Rick Hahn and let him have the power to retain or fire Ozzie.

Fire Everyone from KW on down.

 

The organization as a whole has had zero direction, zero character, and zero identity.

Fire Everyone from KW on down.

 

The organization as a whole has had zero direction, zero character, and zero identity.

Liar. Our identity is potty mouth.

Fire Everyone from KW on down.

 

The organization as a whole has had zero direction, zero character, and zero identity.

I personally don't see a need to fire KW. I think on the whole he's done a great job. This is not about building a poor roster, at all. Its about living up to talent. That's on the manager, the coaches, and the players, in some combination.

 

If you don't start making moves, you run the risk of alienating a very, very upset fan base to begin with.

I personally don't see a need to fire KW. I think on the whole he's done a great job. This is not about building a poor roster, at all. Its about living up to talent. That's on the manager, the coaches, and the players, in some combination.

Its not just out major league roster, he's responsible for the entire organization including the minor leagues and scouting. We have no identity, no "White Sox Way" being taught up and down our system. We have players coming up to the majors with poor fundamentals.

Fire Everyone from KW on down.

 

The organization as a whole has had zero direction, zero character, and zero identity.

 

I asked my baseball stat-geek co-worker about this, after last night, I said what would you do?

 

He said both KW AND Ozzie. And you might as well send the others with them but I don't know who you put in their place.

 

This is just BRUTAL.

 

Fire Everyone from KW on down.

 

The organization as a whole has had zero direction, zero character, and zero identity.

 

This, 100%.

I personally don't see a need to fire KW. I think on the whole he's done a great job. This is not about building a poor roster, at all. Its about living up to talent. That's on the manager, the coaches, and the players, in some combination.

 

How has he done a great job? We used to pride ourselves on having no bad contracts. Now, we have a handful of guys you couldn't even give away.

Fire Everyone from KW on down.

 

The organization as a whole has had zero direction, zero character, and zero identity.

 

I'd keep Cooper, i really have no problem with him at all. I'd even keep KW around. He gave us a team this year, this is not on him

Its not just out major league roster, he's responsible for the entire organization including the minor leagues and scouting. We have no identity, no "White Sox Way" being taught up and down our system. We have players coming up to the majors with poor fundamentals.

The players with poor fundamentals are coming mostly from outside the system... because most of the players, period, are coming from outside the system. So I disagree with your sentiment.

 

If I was JR id probably fire everyone, hire myself as GM and hire Steve to be in charge of bothering other teams about trades.

The players with poor fundamentals are coming mostly from outside the system... because most of the players, period, are coming from outside the system. So I disagree with your sentiment.

Most of that is because we dont have the players in our system to fill holes.

Most of that is because we dont have the players in our system to fill holes.

 

That's where we miss Jermaine Dye

How has he done a great job? We used to pride ourselves on having no bad contracts. Now, we have a handful of guys you couldn't even give away.

He built a roster that by all accounts has plenty of talent to go to the post-season. That's his job, and he did it, and did it well. He even convinced JR to spend more money than the org really wanted to. He juiced everything he could out of people to make a roster that has the talent to get it done. Seems like a good job to me.

 

And we really don't have many bad contracts, I fail to see where you see that. Teahen extension was stupid, given. Ohman was too much money. Otherwise, I don't see it.

 

He built a roster that by all accounts has plenty of talent to go to the post-season. That's his job, and he did it, and did it well. He even convinced JR to spend more money than the org really wanted to. He juiced everything he could out of people to make a roster that has the talent to get it done. Seems like a good job to me.

 

And we really don't have many bad contracts, I fail to see where you see that. Teahen extension was stupid, given. Ohman was too much money. Otherwise, I don't see it.

 

You don't think Peavy and Rios are bad contracts? Peavy might have surpassed Zito as having the worst contract in the majors. I feel like you're confusing activity with achievement, as he's really hurt this organization by going "all in" with a roster that had flaws and sacrificing the future after this season.

Most of that is because we dont have the players in our system to fill holes.

So, you blame the players who don't make the majors for the mistakes that the guys who do make it make? That makes zero sense.

 

As a fully seperate argument from your false one about fundamentals, certainly, the farm sucks. But that's not a result that matters - that's an institutional risk. And if he can prove consistently that it doesn't matter, then it doesn't matter. So who on this roster would you replace with a minor leaguer, even a very good one? Unless you are one of these people who thinks there is such a thing as a can't miss prospect (which does not exist), the answer is basically none. And if your argument is that they wouldn't have to sign these big contracts as a result, I'll say again... show me the bad contracts. Show me the supposed albatross contracts this team has, that KW signed. Teahen is bad, but its one more year at a relatively low number. Ohman was overpaid. Who else? Rios as an acquisition maybe?

 

KW isn't the problem here, at all. He's succeeded, as far as I am concerned.

 

You don't think Peavy and Rios are bad contracts? Peavy might have surpassed Zito as having the worst contract in the majors. I feel like you're confusing activity with achievement, as he's really hurt this organization by going "all in" with a roster that had flaws and sacrificing the future after this season.

Peavy? No, I don't. No one could have possibly begun to predict his freakish injury.

 

Rios? Maybe. Jury is still out on that one.

 

Fire Walker now.

 

If things don't turn around by the ASB, there will be roster changes.

 

How we finish up the year will determine whether Guillen will be back.

 

KW will be given an opportunity to bring in another manager.

 

 

Peavy? No, I don't. No one could have possibly begun to predict his freakish injury.

Well, we acquired a guy with people thinking he had an odd delivery and high chance of injury, we acquired him hurt, then supposedly pushed him/let him push himself out there when things were starting to hurt. That was a fairly predictable result of that sequence.

You don't think Peavy and Rios are bad contracts? Peavy might have surpassed Zito as having the worst contract in the majors. I feel like you're confusing activity with achievement, as he's really hurt this organization by going "all in" with a roster that had flaws and sacrificing the future after this season.

Again, Peavy's contract is only bad if it's uninsured.

Peavy? No, I don't. No one could have possibly begun to predict his freakish injury.

 

Yes it was a freak injury, but there were definitely some concerns about his health and how many "good" years he had left in that elbow, etc.

 

Every move a GM makes, they think is a good move. Heck, Teahen's contract is nothing in the scheme of things, but Peavy's contract is a killer.

So, you blame the players who don't make the majors for the mistakes that the guys who do make it make? That makes zero sense.

 

As a fully seperate argument from your false one about fundamentals, certainly, the farm sucks. But that's not a result that matters - that's an institutional risk. And if he can prove consistently that it doesn't matter, then it doesn't matter. So who on this roster would you replace with a minor leaguer, even a very good one? Unless you are one of these people who thinks there is such a thing as a can't miss prospect (which does not exist), the answer is basically none. And if your argument is that they wouldn't have to sign these big contracts as a result, I'll say again... show me the bad contracts. Show me the supposed albatross contracts this team has, that KW signed. Teahen is bad, but its one more year at a relatively low number. Ohman was overpaid. Who else? Rios as an acquisition maybe?

 

KW isn't the problem here, at all. He's succeeded, as far as I am concerned.

Its not a false argument. We could simply rebuilt our team with our own players if we not only drafted talent, but were able to consistently groom players within our system. If we had an actual teaching method we would be able to plug fundamentally sound players already versed in how the big team plays at least once in awhile. Instead we are forced to sign or acquire players from other teams to try and plug holes, which clearly hasnt been working most of the time. The organization as a whole has no direction, no philosophy, and pretty much no immediate hope of success. Thats grounds for a CEO to get fired by his board, and KW is the CEO of this organization.