August 10, 201114 yr QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 01:27 PM) Caulfield, I think you need to accept the fact that Crain is not going anywhere. But wouldn't we have said the same thing about Linebrink back in 2008. Crain has had a really good two year run...better than he's ever been before. But I still don't think we need both Crain AND Frasor. It's a luxury we probably won't be able to afford unless we win the division this year. Sure, I'd keep both of them and get rid of Wil Ohman. You'd rather have 2 quality relievers than 5-6 Ohmans paid half that amount.
August 10, 201114 yr QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 01:27 PM) If we were to do a total rebuild, get down to $80 million in salary next year, he's still moveable, but he's fairly paid for the work he's doing. He'd be pretty easy to move if we wanted to, I just don't see us selling off to the point where it is needed.
August 10, 201114 yr QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 01:30 PM) You know, you can actually google "Matt Thornton Fangraphs" yourself. It isnt' that hard. Velocity: 2008 95.4 2009: 95.7 2010: 96.1 2011: 95.7. Is that average velocity or average velocity on all his pitches thrown? It just seems his stuff isn't as crisp as before, based just on the eye test. And maybe if all the pitches are in that category, he's never thrown more fastballs than any previous season it seems. Once again. Perception. Could be wrong easily enough. How much less is he throwing his offspeed pitches in 2011?
August 10, 201114 yr QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 01:31 PM) But wouldn't we have said the same thing about Linebrink back in 2008. Crain has had a really good two year run...better than he's ever been before. But I still don't think we need both Crain AND Frasor. It's a luxury we probably won't be able to afford unless we win the division this year. Sure, I'd keep both of them and get rid of Wil Ohman. You'd rather have 2 quality relievers than 5-6 Ohmans paid half that amount. Yes I would have. Crain has had a far longer record of success, and Linebrink was up and down before the Sox signed him. Crain is affordable and the Sox like him. YOU may not like him, but I wouldnt set your heart on watching him walk out the door, because it is pretty unlikely, at least for this year and next.
August 10, 201114 yr He just needs a GOOD secondary pitch and he doesn't have one. If he would add a change to his repertoire he'd be devastating.
August 10, 201114 yr QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 02:34 PM) Is that average velocity or average velocity on all his pitches thrown? It just seems his stuff isn't as crisp as before, based just on the eye test. And maybe if all the pitches are in that category, he's never thrown more fastballs than any previous season it seems. Once again. Perception. Could be wrong easily enough. How much less is he throwing his offspeed pitches in 2011? Average velocity shows his average fastball velocity. The graph shows average fastball velocity per game. There's no obvious trend downwards this season, and his average velocity on the season is the same. If I did this same exercise back in May, I'd have given the same number within error. His velocity hasn't changed. Use of the fastball: 2009: 88.2% 2010: 88.1 % 2011: 87.3% I'd call that within error almost the same. The only thing that is really obviously different this year is what Pitch F/X thinks his offspeed pitch is. PFX thinks he threw mostly sliders as his 2nd pitch the last 2 years (correct) but this year it's categorizing most of those pitches as changeups. Same pitch as far as any of us can tell, but something about the motion or release point is different. Whether that means Matt is tipping pitches more or his release point has changed or the movement on the pitch has changed, that's not data I can get from here. Clearly something is different, it's not velocity, but it may be showing up in the numbers.
August 10, 201114 yr It looks to me like he's struggling with his arm angle. He's been a bit more over the top, perhaps to give his slider more downward bite.
August 10, 201114 yr QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 01:54 PM) It looks to me like he's struggling with his arm angle. He's been a bit more over the top, perhaps to give his slider more downward bite. Or more likely randomness is biting him in the ass as Major League relievers' predictability is next to impossible.
August 10, 201114 yr QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 01:54 PM) It looks to me like he's struggling with his arm angle. He's been a bit more over the top, perhaps to give his slider more downward bite. What is going on in your avatar?
August 10, 201114 yr He'd be blocked by every s***ty team and never get the chance to get a return. Pointless
August 10, 201114 yr Keep him. Consider a trade during the offseason. See what happens the rest of this season. Bullpen overall is looking great..thus why mess with it right now.
August 10, 201114 yr QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 07:25 PM) He'd be blocked by every s***ty team and never get the chance to get a return. Doubtful, as that's a lot of money for a 35 year old set-up man.
August 10, 201114 yr QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 02:13 PM) What is going on in your avatar? I can answer!! Kate Upton meets the Dougie
August 10, 201114 yr QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 02:53 PM) Doubtful, as that's a lot of money for a 35 year old set-up man. If teams were willing to trade prospects for him 10 days ago, they such as s*** are going to claim him for nothing other than his contract.
August 10, 201114 yr Seriously. Just give him up? Are you nuts. Even in a down year he's still one of the premiere lefty relievers in the game and his contract isn't horrendous. Yes, its expensive for a set-up guy but he's a proven premiere set-up guy and the Yanks would I'm sure love him as would any other contender.
August 10, 201114 yr QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 07:55 PM) If teams were willing to trade prospects for him 10 days ago, they such as s*** are going to claim him for nothing other than his contract. Yes, maybe 4 or 5 teams...not every team like Jenksy mentioned. What does he have, like 14 million left on his contract?
August 10, 201114 yr QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 02:53 PM) I can answer!! Kate Upton meets the Dougie Super sexiness
August 10, 201114 yr QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 03:24 PM) Super sexiness That was the only thing that made sense to me in it.
August 10, 201114 yr QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 03:26 PM) That was the only thing that made sense to me in it.
August 10, 201114 yr QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 03:23 PM) Yes, maybe 4 or 5 teams...not every team like Jenksy mentioned. What does he have, like 14 million left on his contract? Missing the point. The Sox aren't going to just dump him for nothing, and no s*** team will give up anything for him. So the Royals or whoever claim him, offer nothing, we pull him back. He'd never make it to a team willing to give up players, might as well keep him till the off season and get at least something for him.
August 10, 201114 yr QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 03:29 PM) <!--quoteo(post=2457247:date=Aug 10, 2011 -> 03:26 PM:name=bigruss22)-->QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 03:26 PM) <!--quotec-->That was the only thing that made sense to me in it. Even better one
August 10, 201114 yr A Kate Upton video is appropriate for a "dump Thornton" thread. Both are ridiculous
August 10, 201114 yr QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 03:30 PM) <!--quoteo(post=2457249:date=Aug 10, 2011 -> 03:29 PM:name=RockRaines)-->QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 03:29 PM) <!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2457247:date=Aug 10, 2011 -> 03:26 PM:name=bigruss22)-->QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Aug 10, 2011 -> 03:26 PM) <!--quotec-->That was the only thing that made sense to me in it. Even better one
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