Balta1701 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 04:13 AM) It's amazing to me in the face of another September when "our fate was in our hands" and we fail miserably, how many people are willing to give our leadership a pass. You all don't want to win as much as being proud of being non confrontational.Ozzie is plenty confrontational and he clearly didn't translate that into wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexSoxFan#1 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 10:08 AM) i hope ozzie is back next year You're still in Ozzie's camp, Melissa?Even after all these years of a high payroll but fail team? I love Ozzie as a personality but not as a manager.Thank you for 2005 but let's move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 10:34 AM) You're still in Ozzie's camp, Melissa?Even after all these years of a high payroll but fail team? I love Ozzie as a personality but not as a manager.Thank you for 2005 but let's move on. i dont think its his fault this team blows(dunn,rios,morel,beckham,etc) and im not saying hes the smartest guy but hes not that stupid. he sure looked smart in 05. but at the end of the day its on the players. and who got these crap players? kw. do i think its kw's fault dunn blows? no. but i would make him accountable for this mess before ozzie. basically what im trying to say is that i think the sox can successed with ozzie as manager with some new changes (players,coaches) and i dont see that there are many better options out there. some names ive heard, like brenly, sandberg, cora,valentine, please, ill take ozzie. >unless we could get martinez, i rather stick with ozzie Edited September 5, 2011 by Melissa1334 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 10:31 AM) How do you know this? Because I never saw him strike out or give up an earned run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 11:47 AM) Because I never saw him strike out or give up an earned run. Let me ask you this hypothetical...if the players did everything right on a franchise and the manager did everything wrong...from bad decisions on the field to making sure players were ill prepared for games, whatever you could imagine...wouldn't that same standard hold true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 10:53 AM) Let me ask you this hypothetical...if the players did everything right on a franchise and the manager did everything wrong...from bad decisions on the field to making sure players were ill prepared for games, whatever you could imagine...wouldn't that same standard hold true? He's a teacher... of course it is the players faults and not the managers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 10:53 AM) Let me ask you this hypothetical...if the players did everything right on a franchise and the manager did everything wrong...from bad decisions on the field to making sure players were ill prepared for games, whatever you could imagine...wouldn't that same standard hold true? If you really want to discuss a hypothetical extreme than I would rather the players did everything right and the manager do everything wrong than the manager do everything right and the players do everything wrong. No amount of managing will compensate for players having a season worst than their harshest critics would imagine. In the AL I place the mangers influence as less than 5% of the total. Maybe a handful of games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 11:57 AM) If you really want to discuss a hypothetical extreme than I would rather the players did everything right and the manager do everything wrong than the manager do everything right and the players do everything wrong. No amount of managing will compensate for players having a season worst than their harshest critics would imagine. In the AL I place the mangers influence as less than 5% of the total. Maybe a handful of games. The obvious question in reply is...what makes a series of guys repeatedly have their worst seasons in their careers? From your standard, the manager is useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 10:55 AM) He's a teacher... of course it is the players faults and not the managers Please check your grammar notes and post again. Was Oz really responsible for 10 losses this season? Five? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 10:58 AM) The obvious question in reply is...what makes a series of guys repeatedly have their worst seasons in their careers? From your standard, the manager is useless. Which is as accurate as saying by your standard players are useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 11:59 AM) Was Oz really responsible for 10 losses this season? Five? If you watched this team this season... Did they come to the season prepared to play? (My answer...look at April's record). Did they regularly come into big games ready to play? These are 2 things that are directly within the manager's sphere of influence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Sox went into Detroit struggling and the Tigers had been winning. They are a real good team and playing on thei turf. Ozzie didn't say anything wrong. We just got steam rolled is all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandz Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Yeah that was Ozzie laughing in the dugout last night. LAUGHING. When asked on air if he would be laughing, Bobby Valentine said "I don't think I could force a smile right now..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 05:23 PM) Sox went into Detroit struggling and the Tigers had been winning. They are a real good team and playing on thei turf. Ozzie didn't say anything wrong. We just got steam rolled is all Sox had won five of their last six coming into Detroit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 03:40 PM) Sorry for posting that twice. And thank you for not repeating something you have already posted. Tex, want me to take it from here? Cause I agree with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 05:27 PM) Sox had won five of their last six coming into Detroit. That was then and this is now type thing. That's baseball don't you agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 05:24 PM) Yeah that was Ozzie laughing in the dugout last night. LAUGHING. When asked on air if he would be laughing, Bobby Valentine said "I don't think I could force a smile right now..." Sanity now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 11:01 AM) If you watched this team this season... Did they come to the season prepared to play? (My answer...look at April's record). Did they regularly come into big games ready to play? These are 2 things that are directly within the manager's sphere of influence. Who is "they"? Do you mean players? Guys that have been playing at the highest levels for years. Suddenly Dunn and Rios don't know how to get ready for a game without a manager telling them? I'm not saying Ozzie doesn't deserve his share of the blame. he's had a season almost as bad as Dunn and Rios. But his craptastic season wasn't nearly as big as problem as the craptastic seasons from major pieces of the team. You've been watching Bad News Bears too much if you think a manager can somehow make up for Dunn playing like a guy that should be a low draft pick in AA. I agree it's time for an organizational shake up, but the next guy is going to inherit the same pile of crap, and if that pile of crap doesn't change, the results will be the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 11:28 AM) That was then and this is now type thing. That's baseball don't you agree? That made no sense whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 05:28 PM) That was then and this is now type thing. That's baseball don't you agree? Nope, you said Sox went into Detroit struggling, and I told you that was false. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 11:28 AM) That was then and this is now type thing. That's baseball don't you agree? Wait a minute. You just said the Sox were struggling going into the Detroit series. fathom just destroyed you and now you're saying that was then? lmao. You're killing me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 11:32 AM) Wait a minute. You just said the Sox were struggling going into the Detroit series. fathom just destroyed you and now you're saying that was then? lmao. You're killing me. I loved his quote asking Tex if he wanted to take it from here. Take all the bulls*** away from the post and I read, "Well, fathom just destroyed me, anyone want to cover my ass while I get the hell out of here?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 12:30 PM) Who is "they"? Do you mean players? Guys that have been playing at the highest levels for years. Suddenly Dunn and Rios don't know how to get ready for a game without a manager telling them? I'm not saying Ozzie doesn't deserve his share of the blame. he's had a season almost as bad as Dunn and Rios. But his craptastic season wasn't nearly as big as problem as the craptastic seasons from major pieces of the team. You've been watching Bad News Bears too much if you think a manager can somehow make up for Dunn playing like a guy that should be a low draft pick in AA. I agree it's time for an organizational shake up, but the next guy is going to inherit the same pile of crap, and if that pile of crap doesn't change, the results will be the same. And when multiple expensive pieces come to the same team and have craptacular seasons, well, we just throw up our hands in frustration and say that there was nothing that could have been done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 11:27 AM) Tex, want me to take it from here? Cause I agree with you lol. Thanks but a 1,000 posts that Oz sucks and should be fired versus two that it ain't all his fault is about right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 11:44 AM) And when multiple expensive pieces come to the same team and have craptacular seasons, well, we just throw up our hands in frustration and say that there was nothing that could have been done? No not at all. There is plenty of blame to go around, including the players in question. Is there a manager in the world that you would give a pass to and then blame Dunn and Rios? Oz 10% Players 90% is about my assessment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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